Horse stable floor?

[Fuddy1952]

I'm in process of building a horse barn, 36'x52'...for now just two 12x12 stalls, dutch doors to outside, 2) 12ft sliding doors each end.
Original idea is "L" shape concrete...so 36x12 pull through and 12x12 tack room concrete, concrete ramps either end.
Concrete has not been poured yet...it's under roof with sides.
My question is I'm thinking I ought to concrete the whole thing. The 12x12 two stalls I'd put down rubber mats and straw.
It would be so easy to clean and the whole barn would stay cleaner.
As I'm writing this I just got a call from contractor who said concrete right now is $135/yard. One part, separate shed is off, equipment storage, gravel is fine.
Thoughts?

 

[drssg]

I don’t recall seeing a place that poured concrete for the stalls. I think it would be worth looking into how people account for drainage of excess urine. I don’t think straw soaks up that much.

I can see where there would be a long-term benefit. IME, a gravel base gets uneven over time.

If you think you’ll ever put in automatic waterers, that would be a planning consideration.

 

[snymat68]

My wife rides, and has boarded her horses at many different barns over the years. None of them have had concrete in the stalls. I think this is more for comfort for the horses than anything. They've all used shavings in the stalls instead of straw. I think this is easier to clean and also absorbs a lot of the urine. I think sawmills sell it for cheap. Some of the barns she's been at have had rubber mats between the dirt and shavings, some not.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I'll have water and electric and I'll have a waterer between stalls I bought, a fountain type. I thought about a floor drain also...but it's getting expensive!!!!!

 

[RNeumann]

In my area, 5 years ago concrete was about $100/cubic yard- placed. With the current economy and a different location in the USA I can see $135/cubic yard.

I assume it’s 20-25 yards

 

[Fuddy1952]

I think concrete price is reasonable, but I'm waiting for the actual price which includes labor, rebar, finishing, etc.
My calculations it may be an additional $3-4K, but may be worth it long term.
It sure would be easier to clean and horses on mats with wood chips or straw the concrete wouldn't make much difference.
"Sand" they were originally going to use advantage may be easier urine dissipation.

 

[drssg]

I used a product that’s locally called “one eighth by zero”. It’s 1/8” stone down to fine dust. It looks similar to sand, but it packs down quite well over time.

I’m not clear on the cleaning benefit you are expecting with concrete. With the rubber mats, the daily cleaning seems like it would be the same either way.

If you’re talking about regularly cleaning below the mats, then you would be quite the meticulous stable manager.

 

[bunyip]

Mats are incredibly heavy and need a tractor to move them, our horses get a dirt floor which over the years has compacyed, topped with shavings or straw depending on what is avalable.
Some shavings are not good for the horse, I don't know which ones but daughters tell me some are toxic.
Ours do not come in that often but of course we don't get that cold.

 

[Fuddy1952]

I called local large horse supply place near here. Then I did internet research, trusted sites, forums... of course I'm back to square one!
It looks like it's 50-50. My contractor sells the big stall mats, so yes...heavy...probably the best. One local farm store sells 6x6 ones, so 4 mats...easier to handle.
Some say concrete really hard on the horse, standing in stall...then they say the expensive barns are concrete, it's padding that makes it soft.
Then I think we have so many burrowing things, snakes, etc...the garage these same guys built 30 years ago concrete is great...no animals, insects.
Here are few pictures so far...
It's going to be nice...but climbing price

 

[ustmd]

So, I just asked the wife/head horse women. Not sure if this will help.

We currently have concrete stalls with center floor drains and rubber mats. She uses shavings and compressed wood pellets for the bedding. Her family has had both concrete floors and non-concrete floors.

I asked her and she had to think about it. Here are her comments:

1. She really likes the concrete floors. Easier to clean and maintain. Also there is no issue with drainage or having the horses "dig"/paw holes in the stall over time.

That being said, if the horses had to be up for extended periods, like several weeks during a hard/cold winter, she would want dirt floors as it would be easier on the hooves and joints.

 

[zzvyb6]

You want a concrete aisleway, concrete office/tackrood/feedroom floor, concrete aprons at the doors (heavily grooved for traction) and blue clay stall floors. The blue clay has hoof friendly antibacterial content that aids hoof infection fighting (no hoof, no horse). Yes, concrete stall floors would stay flat, but rubber mats or sawdust or shavings on concrete trap/retains urine/uric acid. Acid and concrete are like matter and antimatter. Plus standing on a rigid surface is bad for horse leg ligaments and contributes to lameness.

I suggest you consider a wash stall, too. Also with a floor drain and block walls and a concrete floor. This is the way my barn has been professional designed, then built by a fellow who owned a concrete company. Even the stall walls are concrete block. No chewing through these walls. We had extra stalls, so I rotated the horses between them. This allows the stalls to dry out during the swap.

BTW, I made my own stall bedding using a wood chipper and anything pine that will go into it. Used and thrown out Christmas trees make the best chips. Smells like a PINE forest. Easy to sift through and easy to burn when the time comes (smells like burning cork).

While your barn is still in the construction phase, think about where you will be storing hay for winter or year 'round feeding. Don't store it above stalls because the critters give off a LOT of moisture/sweat. This will rise above the occasion and your hay will get moldy.

I have a few other practical suggestions in terms of barn management and efficient use of your time, but I don't want you to choke on these.

 

[WM75Guy]

Concrete is bad for horses to stand on for any length of time, ruins their legs. Our barn was built by Morton so I trust how they said to build the stalls. Only the aisle and wash rack are concrete. The stalls have 6" of stone covered by 2" of sand, then mats. After the Morton mats wore out I replaced them with the 4'X6' mats from TSC. Two people can move them easy and I cut them with a utility knife & straight edge. They last 3-4 years before they start to tear. Our horses weigh 1400# to 1500# so they are rough on them. I use TSC fine shavings for bedding.

Before sand.



Finished stalls.



Center aisle with rubber mats for the crossties.



Our newest horse, 8 y/o 17.2 Oldenburg gelding, weighted in at 1300# here. He is up to 1400# now as he no longer jumps, just dressage.

 

[NorTracNY]

I agree with the last two post. You don't want concrete stall floors. I've only seen it once around here and it was an old barn which likely was not built for horses. I've heard good things about the mats, but they are heavy and expensive. We just re-level the floors every few years. There's just one horse that will paw and the others we just need to rebuild their wet spots.

 

[DerbyRunner]

ZZ and repowell post good information. We don't ever have our horses on concrete. Maybe it is comfortable for a 200 lb man to stand on concrete with some shavings on top. Not so for a horse. That concrete is going to age the joints.

 

[JimP]

I am startiing planning for a stock barn. If you are doing sand or fines over coarse gravel do you use a membrane to keep the layers separate? How deep is the coarse layer and how deep is the fine layer? Thanks. Jim

 

[WM75Guy]

My barn does not have anything to separate the layers. The barn was has a built up pad of select fill. Each stall has 6" of rock and 2" of sand. Occasionally the horses weight pushes material through the cracks causing the mats to lift at a corner. I clean it out to the sand and put the mat back. When I replace the mats I use some bags of playground sand to even things up before putting the new mats in.

 

[ultrarunner]

Some of the old Estate Barns around here use end grain parkay floor... wood block showing the grain... with cast iron drainage grates...

Must be good because the closest one now hosts weddings at the carriage house... the floors look great and all I can think of these horses must have had a great life 120 years ago...

 

[QRTRHRS]

Concrete vs compacted material with rubber mats: Lots of opinions, stone dust does get hard but I agree with others that it does not "draw" like concrete. I would do a little searching to see if it has actually been studied by UK or someone.

I know a Mennonite builder that likes to set his stall floors about 3 1/2 or 4 inches below the aisle to contain bedding, etc as the horse leaves the stall. Better have some kind of floor drain system if you like to or have to wash down the stall.

Horses in a barn mean dust. Not to mention fly dung. Even with just two horses and a concrete aisle, there will be dust and if you have open truss work, spider webs.

I have used compacted stone dust or screenings as it is also called with 4x6x3/4 inch thick rubber mats. The mats are like moving dead weight but with a pair of vice grips you can man handle them into place. I like to cut and place them so that there is a 1/4 inch space between mats else they can buckle up with expansion worse than with no gap at all. I boarded and owned up to 25 horses with this setup. Only one horse ever wore holes through a mat. Overall the mats stay flat but can get dirt underneath and lift. It is easy enough to sweep them off, flip them out of place and scrape up the excess dirt. Like anything barn/fence/horse related, there is maintenance.

Walnut sawdust can bring on laminitis. Red oak can be toxic but mostly it just plain stinks. Sawdust is a valuable commodity and getting hard to get for free. Shavings take forever to pick. Wood pellets work well but break down and make for to much dust. Horses get COPD just like people do.

I designed an open concept barn when we bought our current place but then decided not to invest in it because we likely will not be staying where we are. The back wall would have had the stalls plus an enclosed area for grain, tack, etc and a limited hay storage area. The front would have been all open except for sliding doors on every other "bay" plus the ends to allow run in.

For now, I just have run in sheds which work well overall. The horses are healthy. They can come and go as they please. Not so much fun for me in heavy rain but I am retired so I can somewhat adjust to the weather to feed, etc.

 

[dieselkelly]

We have concrete with stall mats, bought when on sale. They're not so heavy that two 60+gals can't move them twice a year for power washing. We also use shavings. Its our most expensive cost, so far as the horses are concerned. I wish we could get blown-in bulk shavings. We pay 6-7$ a bale and use 1 bale a day for two horses.

 

[Birdhunter1]

My floors in the stall are dirt, it is well above surrounding grade and slightly below the barn itself, which is also dirt. The horses are rarely stalled, maybe overnight if I know the trimmer is coming in the morning and there are muddy conditions or an injury we are nursing. The horses always have the choice of the stalls, which are 8'x12' and they are open, the containment is simply a full width gate, I clean them out with a tractor about once a month or maybe every 6 weeks. If I put down anything in the stalls a bale of straw is what I use, 1 bale will handle all three stalls, and I usually only do that if I put them up for the night due to the trimmer and mud conditions (I've found fresh straw in a few hours scrubs their hooves quite well).