HOT Positive Battery Cable Damaging The Starter Solenoid

[jtmcdon]

I just installed a new starter solenoid on my 861D. This is the second one in the last 6 months. The one I replaced 6 months ago got so HOT it almost melted the housing around the positive terminal stud.

The one I just replaced was doing the same thing but I replaced it before it got HOT enough to melt the housing.

The brand new solenoid did start the tractor with the help of some starter fluid, which I have never had to use before and I hope I never do again. This stuff made the engine sound really rough.

My question is...what would cause the positive "RED" battery cable to get so HOT so quick? Could it be something internal to the battery has screwed up and outputting to many amps. I bough the battery from Tractor Supply.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Roadworthy]

It appears the Ford 861 came in three different "flavors" - gasoline, propane, and diesel. The first two were six volt while the diesel was twelve. Of course if you use a twelve volt battery in a six volt system things can get really hot really fast. For the sake of argument I'll assume you're using a twelve volt battery and the tractor has a twelve volt system - but check to be sure. The number of amps a battery puts out is limited by the resistance of the circuit so you need to determine what has changed. It is possible the starter itself is the culprit having shorted internally to ground. Is there something conductive laying across the hot terminal of the starter such that it's taking current to ground? If you can't find a mechanical cause and your battery is the correct voltage it is probably time to take the starter to an automotive electrical shop.

 

[jtmcdon]

It appears the Ford 861 came in three different "flavors" - gasoline, propane, and diesel. The first two were six volt while the diesel was twelve. Of course if you use a twelve volt battery in a six volt system things can get really hot really fast. For the sake of argument I'll assume you're using a twelve volt battery and the tractor has a twelve volt system - but check to be sure. The number of amps a battery puts out is limited by the resistance of the circuit so you need to determine what has changed. It is possible the starter itself is the culprit having shorted internally to ground. Is there something conductive laying across the hot terminal of the starter such that it's taking current to ground? If you can't find a mechanical cause and your battery is the correct voltage it is probably time to take the starter to an automotive electrical shop.

My tractor is Diesel and a 12V system and I very sure all of the electrical components are 12V as well. As for what may have changed maybe the voltage regular is getting faulty. Other than some insulation on the wiring I don't know of anything else that could have changed. I've inspected the wiring to confirm no obvious shorts.

When the tractor starts normal, it starts quick and when I feel the cable is not hot. The hot cable happens when the tractor doesn't starts quickly and I hold down the footswitch longer than normal.

Is there any way to check the starter without removing it.

 

[LouNY]

If the cable or cable end is getting hot enough to damage the solenoid there are two likely issues;
1) the connection of the cable to the lug is poor or corroded,
2) the cable is too small for the current flowing thru it.

The easiest and quickest fix would be a larger starter lead from the battery to the starter.

 

[lennyzx11]

I would suspect the connections as Lou has said. Don’t forget the crimps on each cable end to the wire.

However. I had a battery once that had a loose connection inside from the positive lug to the internal plate do exactly what you have described. The excessive resistance caused the heat up of the positive cable.
This was a case of trying to figure it out over a couple of weeks and putting another battery in it.
Then inquiring minds want to know caused the battery to get surgically taken apart where I found the loose connection.

 

[Roadworthy]

Ah, yes, intermittent connections can cause heat build up, too. While you're checking and tightening things be sure to check the starter mount bolts for tightness. That's how it gets its ground to complete the circuit. Of course you should check your battery positive and ground connections as well as any grounding strap from the battery to the frame.

 

[jtmcdon]

If the cable or cable end is getting hot enough to damage the solenoid there are two likely issues;
1) the connection of the cable to the lug is poor or corroded,
2) the cable is too small for the current flowing thru it.

The easiest and quickest fix would be a larger starter lead from the battery to the starter.

The Positive cable is a large enough and is a heavy gauge but the end that attaches the solenoid looks rough. I'll replace it this week.

 

[jtmcdon]

Ah, yes, intermittent connections can cause heat build up, too. While you're checking and tightening things be sure to check the starter mount bolts for tightness. That's how it gets its ground to complete the circuit. Of course you should check your battery positive and ground connections as well as any grounding strap from the battery to the frame.

I hope the starter is not the problem because if it is I'm screwed. One of the heads on a mounting bolt has been rung off. It was like this when I bought the tractor in early 2012 and I over-looked it. The damaged mounting bolt is on top next to the engine. It's one of the bolts that secures the flange welded to the air cleaner outlet tube. But the starter is very stable and secured and the threads on the damaged bolt are holding it along with the other bolts. If I had to remove the starter it would probably cause a lot damage to the starter casing, which doesn't concern me near as much as damaging the bell housing. or engine block. If you have any experience removing a broken bolt I would love to know about.

 

[smilinjak]

I hope the starter is not the problem because if it is I'm screwed. One of the heads on a mounting bolt has been rung off. It was like this when I bought the tractor in early 2012 and I over-looked it. The damaged mounting bolt is on top next to the engine. It's one of the bolts that secures the flange welded to the air cleaner outlet tube. But the starter is very stable and secured and the threads on the damaged bolt are holding it along with the other bolts. If I had to remove the starter it would probably cause a lot damage to the starter casing, which doesn't concern me near as much as damaging the bell housing. or engine block. If you have any experience removing a broken bolt I would love to know about.

If the head of the bolt os wrung off it is possible that bolt doesn’t hold anything and if the other two are removed the starter will slide right off the broken off bolt. I would loosen the other two and try to shake the starter, if it shakes take the bolts out and pull the starter off.
smilinjak

 

[CalG]

If the head of the bolt os wrung off it is possible that bolt doesn稚 hold anything and if the other two are removed the starter will slide right off the broken off bolt. I would loosen the other two and try to shake the starter, if it shakes take the bolts out and pull the starter off.
smilinjak

Just a comment on the topic of common automotive solenoids.

There are two types!

One type is designed for intermittent duty. These are the common starter motor solenoids. They will "burn up" if tasked with long duration energization. The windings and contacts won't take the heat.

The other type are designed for continuous duty. An electric winch control in example.

If cleaning up the cable terminals doesn't seem to be the solution. Try a continuous duty solenoid. There is a cost difference in the device however.
https://www.walmart.com/c/kp/continuous-duty-solenoids ....... an example.