How many hours on your hst transmission no matter who made it.

[Egon]

The combine has to adjust it's speed to the the amount of crop that can be processed.

 

[jinman]

I don't mean to make this thread go on a tangent, but it occurs to me that concrete trucks are mostly powered by hydraulic motors. That means a motor must also have a pump powered by an engine PTO. I'm not sure how the speed of the motor is controlled, but fluid power seems to be pretty darn reliable in this application. By the looks of some of these trucks, they have been around for a long time with thousands of hours while mixing up to 9 yards of concrete at a time. I only hope my HST would be as reliable.

 

[Kernopelli]

It may be apples and oranges comparing construction/industrial machinery to tractors but we have several pieces of hydro equipment we use at work..wheel loader, backhoe,skid steer and the last time I looked the lowest hours on them ( with the exception of a 2008 Komatsu WA200) was 4400hrs. These machines aren't exactly babied either. Not outright abuse and they do receive regular maintenance but a lot of people operate them, some of them have no business running them, if you know what I mean.

Point being, I have seen that a good hydro trans can last well over 10,000hrs.

 

[MossRoad]

An hour a week? Wow! That's gotta be tough!

Hey, an hour a week on a small tractor beats many more walking behind a push mower or snow blower any day!

 

[ModMech]

2001 B2410 HST @ 704 Hr.

 

[art]

I've often wondered why hydro's were not more successful in ag tractors as it works on constuction machinery and most combines can go their whole practical life of 4-5000hrs without hydro trouble and many beyond that..!!

A hydro since the late sixties early seventies has been used to enhance the speeds of PTO work or to work at finite speeds to enhance the speed of crop processing. They can handle this type work better then and faster then a gear drive even with the parasitic horsepower drain of this style of transmissions. Today we are working with the CVT types that are a type of snowmobile drive system but by far more advanced but they still haven't shown us what they will do in the long run. Farmers have told us they are not as good on fuel as the gear drives but they do like the variables.

When the hydro first was offered to the farmers many were sold with out proper training as well as using them with the "they do it all" slogan. Such a shame!

As many of you know they do loose some on a hard pull from within. A good gear drive being the most economical on long hard pulls and then you have some of the many types of power shifts that will burn less then the hydro but more then the gear drive. The hydro has been a vary versatile transmission and had many duties though the years.

The maintence is normally higher on a hydro then a gear drive but the wear factor comes in! Ag customer a dairy farmer, two sixty five horsepower tractors that they had owned and both tractors were in the 5,000 to 6,000 hour range. The complaint was nobody liked to drag with the hydro or do heavy work. We talked for a bit and the hydro was put on the cattle trailer running between the three dairy barns about a six mile run. The hydro also was used for PTO work tedder and rake at first and then pulling the 12 hydro swing mower instead of the 100 PTO hp gear drive.
They were amazed over it's efficency! When talking after a year it was brought out that they had put three sets of tires and one clutch job in the gear drive vs the worn out originals on the hydro.

We often see ten thousand plus hours on the hydro's with no troubles and have a few that are double that. They will often go more then an engine.

 

[dex3361]

Art that is good information and guys lets keep it coming. So often people hear that a HST/ Hydro is not as reliable a geared trannys. I understand that the New Holland 8n Retro tractor has a CVT trans. I wonder does it have a belt? I would think that would be unreliable but who knows.

 

[Highbeam]

I propose that a tractor used to pull a disc or mow huge fields will generally be seeing less forward/reverse chages, less speed changes, less cold starting, and maybe even better maintenance than the typical hobby farmer/brush clearer here on TBN. So the use style becomes very important.

Oh and 850 hours on a Kioti CK30 doing non-farm work like dragging logs, clearing slash, burning slash, heavy brush hogging, grading roads, etc.

 

[Window Geek]

158 hours on my Kubota 7610 HST. Loader, tiller, and back blade work the most. It's a good machine.

 

[D7E]

D7E I have a question for you. Do combines have speed ranges or do they travel at one constant speed? I know nothing about combines and was just curious about what type hydro units they use?

Obviously it may vary with age and brand and i'm not up to date with the brand new 'state of the art" machines but Usually a 3 speed manual transmission.older machines varied speed within those gears with a belt in variable speed pulleys and newer ones doing it with the hydro these being more variable ,giving speed overlap without shifting gears and being able to stop,backup or feather difficult patches into the machine without using the clutch and nicer to hook up heads with.
High gear is only really used on the road though as the hydro's struggle in top gear in soft conditions or with a full tank....Most of my knowledge is with caseIH or NH..!

 

[Alan L.]

890 hours on my 1999 B2710 HST. No problems.

 

[D7E]

A hydro since the late sixties early seventies has been used to enhance the speeds of PTO work or to work at finite speeds to enhance the speed of crop processing. They can handle this type work better then and faster then a gear drive even with the parasitic horsepower drain of this style of transmissions. Today we are working with the CVT types that are a type of snowmobile drive system but by far more advanced but they still haven't shown us what they will do in the long run. Farmers have told us they are not as good on fuel as the gear drives but they do like the variables.

When the hydro first was offered to the farmers many were sold with out proper training as well as using them with the "they do it all" slogan. Such a shame!

As many of you know they do loose some on a hard pull from within. A good gear drive being the most economical on long hard pulls and then you have some of the many types of power shifts that will burn less then the hydro but more then the gear drive. The hydro has been a vary versatile transmission and had many duties though the years.


The maintence is normally higher on a hydro then a gear drive but the wear factor comes in! Ag customer a dairy farmer, two sixty five horsepower tractors that they had owned and both tractors were in the 5,000 to 6,000 hour range. The complaint was nobody liked to drag with the hydro or do heavy work. We talked for a bit and the hydro was put on the cattle trailer running between the three dairy barns about a six mile run. The hydro also was used for PTO work tedder and rake at first and then pulling the 12 hydro swing mower instead of the 100 PTO hp gear drive.
They were amazed over it's efficency! When talking after a year it was brought out that they had put three sets of tires and one clutch job in the gear drive vs the worn out originals on the hydro.

We often see ten thousand plus hours on the hydro's with no troubles and have a few that are double that. They will often go more then an engine.

What you describe ..easier work like haymaking or pulling a trailer is where i would expect them to fit in but it was grain or potato farms with endless hours of heavy pulling ploughs and cultivators that seemed to give them the bad name...I am talking 80hp+ and these were 1980's machines...

 

[ruralruss]

Good info dfkrug. Thanks for the post. On the larger equipment like a dozer do they use a swash plate type transmission? If not what design is it? Just curious. How come you had your HST apart.

He likes to take old beat up complicated equipment and take them completely apart so he can see how they work. Then for the heck of it it puts them back together as good as new! You should read the thread on his current project, I think it is in Parts and Repairs.

Russ

 

[ModMech]

I don't mean to make this thread go on a tangent, but it occurs to me that concrete trucks are mostly powered by hydraulic motors. That means a motor must also have a pump powered by an engine PTO. I'm not sure how the speed of the motor is controlled, but fluid power seems to be pretty darn reliable in this application. By the looks of some of these trucks, they have been around for a long time with thousands of hours while mixing up to 9 yards of concrete at a time. I only hope my HST would be as reliable.

The only portion of a Concrete (good job on the correct term, they are not "cement" trucks!) truck that is PTO/Hydro is the DRUM and chute cylinder. The TRUCK is a traditional engine/transmission combination like any other HD truck except that the entire trucking industry is moving (rapidly) toward "automated" transmissions in every vehicle. These are a mix of traditional automatics, hybrid drives and automated-manuals (clutch-less!). This is because of driver issues, a lack of people who care to operate a manual transmission correctly (clutch slipping, shifting etc) and not because they are "better" or more efficient.

 

[dfkrug]

The only portion of a Concrete (good job on the correct term, they are not "cement" trucks!) truck...

Hear, hear! Calling your driveway a "cement" driveway is like saying your
house is made out of nails.

Most TBN members may not be aware but older Fergie tractors used a
gear transmission coupled to an automotive style torque converter. It
works pretty well as you can shift at idle speed with no clutch, and even
the hyd pump only ran above idle speed. I drove an old MF30 or 35 with
FEL. I wonder why you don't see that approach anymore?

Another note: CVT is coming to CUTs in the new New Holland units. They
would have the efficiency of gear trannies, the ease of speed changes
like HSTs, but not the safety of HSTs.

 

[Reg]

Hear, hear! Calling your driveway a "cement" driveway is like saying your
house is made out of nails.

Most TBN members may not be aware but older Fergie tractors used a
gear transmission coupled to an automotive style torque converter. It
works pretty well as you can shift at idle speed with no clutch, and even
the hyd pump only ran above idle speed. I drove an old MF30 or 35 with
FEL. I wonder why you don't see that approach anymore?

Another note: CVT is coming to CUTs in the new New Holland units. They
would have the efficiency of gear trannies, the ease of speed changes
like HSTs, but not the safety of HSTs.

The "vast unwashed masses" won't know if that is Constant Velocity or Continuously Variable, but it won't matter.
At those prices they will just be waxed and parked next to the high end imported Lux suv

 

[Egon]

The "vast unwashed masses" won't know if that is Constant Velocity or Continuously Variable, but it won't matter

What if they have one of each?

 

[art]

What you describe ..easier work like haymaking or pulling a trailer is where i would expect them to fit in but it was grain or potato farms with endless hours of heavy pulling ploughs and cultivators that seemed to give them the bad name...I am talking 80hp+ and these were 1980's machines...

You are correct! IH never offered a total powershift tractor till the merger with Case when they finally gave the 88 series transmissions the full comliment of clutch packs to the Magnum series.

They tried to work on economics of farming with a more economical gear transmission for tillage and hydro's for loader and PTO work. The early powershifts used by deere took about 7% of the power to run the hydraulic system that was used in the powershift they were using. This was closer to the losses of the hydro and why they stuck with the hydro and the gear drive for the different uses. Many of the farmers didn't use the original deere powershifts but used the quad range after they found out they actually had to buy a larger tractor to still have the same power. On the later run of the 20 series they gave it 8 more horsepower to make up the power loss. The ones built today are quite a bit more fuel efficient at about a 1 to 2 percent loss over a straight gear drive. The newer IVT's seem to also have that pwoer loss listening to the farmers that have them. The CVT's we will know more on in the next year or two as more of that design comes out to the field.