How many times can I over heat this S370?

[caferacermike]

Seriously I think this tractor runs better as an air cooled model.


When I first got it and started mowing 30 acres of overgrown brush, the ground was super dusty and the cuttings became chaff that all clogged the radiator. It would clog within 10 minutes of cleaning. I had no running water and would use a bug sprayer to clean it as best I could. Then due to all the over heating, the cap to the radiator finally fell apart. I'm gonna say out loud that I have probably put about 4 hours of run time on this engine, over several uses, that were bone dry in the radiator. The little tractor just keeps right on ticking. Each visit out I would top off the water, clean the radiator and start mowing. Then an hour or so would pass and I would shut it down and the steam would just start flying out everywhere.

Well the land just got water so that's good. I can now use a hose to clean the radiator. A friend went out last week to run it and he tossed the belt. Got a new belt for it and put it on yesterday. Within 10 minutes the new position of the alternator rubbed a **** hole in the bottom hose. I swear I can't win for trying. I've flushed the water lines with that calcium citrate cleaning stuff, I've been cleaning the radiator every visit, sometimes even multiple times. I brought out a huge tank full of C02 and a spray nozzle so I could use the 2000lbs of pressure (through a regulator of course*think volume*) to blow the dry chaff and seeds out, I've replaced the cap with a 9lb, 12lb, 15 lb and finally a 20lb.

We had gotten enough rain to keep the dust down and the last visit I made with the 20lb cap actually kept the engine from over heating for 3 hours of run time. I parked it and it was fine, full of water. Then my buddy tossed the belt and over heated it.


So my question today is, just how long can I run this thing without water? It never seems to care.

Yesterday I pulled the radiator thinking I had blown a core due to the 20lb cap, then found the pin hole in the hose. So I pulled all the hoses from the engine and pulled the thermostat housing to see if a thermostat was installed. No t-stat. Should I get one? It's never colder than 40 degrees around here. I also pulled the water pump just to check. Everything is clean as a whistle. I capped the radiator and put 25lbs of air into it with a bicycle pump and dunked it for 10 minutes in a tub of water and did not see any leaks. Pouring water into the radiator it quickly flows out the bottom so it doesn't appear to be clogged. I'm planning on putting it all back together, my real question is should I make paper gaskets or just use RTV? Not a fan of silicone when paper works.

Any other advice to try and get this tractor to run for longer than 20 minutes without overheating would be nice to hear. I know in my heart that it is due to the radiator constantly getting clogged. I tried placing bug screen over the radiator itself and sealing it in place, while that helped a bit, it still clogs with dusty clay just the same. I pulled the now non functional temp sender to replace with non electric gauge set up.

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

Regarding the thermostat I've heard rumors in the past that if you don't have one it can cause overheating because "so much water flows so quickly it doesn't have time to soak up the heat from the block". I've heard this a long time ago and I may have believed it then but t I don't now. Not having a thermostat should actually help it cool better since the water temp will be closer to what the radiator can keep it at. The engine should be kept to run around 180-200°F and that is the primary purpose of the thermostat. Keeping an engine too cool reduces its efficiency (you'll burn more fuel).

I would do whatever you can to keep the cooling system working as close to original design and not test to see just how long you can run it w/o water. Running engines at higher than design temperatures will reduce their life expectancy significantly. Unfortunately I don't have any further suggestions than what you're already doing. I've noticed radiator clogging is a common occurrence on all the tractors I've come across. It would be interesting to see what the engine temp is when the radiator is clean and the engine is just idling to get a feel for how well it's functioning in that state. The head temp where the coolant leaves the engine would be the place to take the reading.

I use a combination of paper gaskets coated with a thin layer of silicone that seems to seal well. Sometimes paper gaskets are used as shims in the driveline components (e.g. front axle, transmission) so you can't just get away with using silicone straight-up. For what you're working on you should be able to though.

 

[caferacermike]

Any ideas for what to do about the differences in sizes for the stupid radiator hoses? I bought a hose today that looked like the one hose had enough bends to make both hoses on the tractor. I took them with me to Napa to size them all up. The difference between ends (one was about 1" and the other 1 1/4") was obvious but what's a man to do in that situation? I bought the larger diameter and hoped it would be close enough, doesn't appear to be. Can I heat and expand a smaller radiator hose to fit? I do that with fuel line all the time in this situation. Not sure why but in the 70's Japanese bike manufacturers loved putting a different sized petcock and carb inlet on the same bike. Just not sure if I could pull it off on the larger hose. Anyone know of a place to call to just buy the actual parts? I've called Valley so many times I'm sick of it. They never answer and never call back.

 

[oliver28472]

Don't give up on Valley Power, I just bought stuff from them. Another option is Japanese Tractor Repair Dixon, IL

 

[CalG]

radiator hoses will not expand or compress "much". They have a fabric braid between the rubber layers to hold shape.

Getting the right size is key.

Sounds like a very durable engine...Cast Iron is such a nice thing ;-)

 

[caferacermike]

radiator hoses will not expand or compress "much". They have a fabric braid between the rubber layers to hold shape.

Getting the right size is key.

Sounds like a very durable engine...Cast Iron is such a nice thing ;-)

Yep I know about the radiator hoses not being very forgiving, that's the problem I face now. Where to get hoses with near enough bends that are 2 different sizes and less than 12" long? I've found some Goodyear "flexible radiator" hoses that have different ends but they are 24" long or longer.

Yes the old cast iron block is doing great. Modern lightweight fuel efficient cast aluminum would have given up long ago.

Headed back out there tonight with some pieces in hand. Hopefully the hoses squish down enough that the clamps hold, not counting on it. I guess I might have to get brass barb fittings that I can use to put 2 hoses together.

Another long shot, I've done this in the past with fuel lines, tell me your opinion. I get a piece of rubber hose that fits over the smaller spigot and cut it the length of the spigot. Place it on the spigot. Cover in super glue gel or rubber contact cement. Then push the larger radiator hose over the mess. Allow to sit for a couple of minutes and then proceed to lightly clamp together. The next day tighten it all up. I've not tried this with water/glycol mix and the possible pressures it makes. The fuel lines were all gravity feed. Any thoughts? I know someone on here has had to make this work for them either on a tractor or custom car engine swap.

 

[Utah Bison]

I have seen rubber sleeves to adapt larger radiator hoses to smaller necks.
Can you cut a sleeve from a old hose that fits the radiator inlet/outlet size?
Then slip the oversized hose over that and double clamp behind the hose barb?
Should hold 16 lb's easy.
Just a thought.
Lee

 

[Ilikeurtractor]

I've been told me a Dayco 71469 hose may work for this. I haven't confirmed it though. It does have different neck sizes on each end of the hose but will probably require shortening if they do fit. It's cheap so if it doesn't work then it isn't that big of a loss. Something to look into anyway.

 

[caferacermike]

Went out with my trusty Yamabond, I love that stuff. I made gaskets yesterday for the water pumps and such. When I got out there I made a 1/4" thick bead about a 1/2" wide to the inside of the hose that was going to be connected to the smaller radiator side and slipped it on, then lightly clamped it while I put the water pump and hood back together. It sat for about an hour which is about how long the stuff needs to begin to gel up. Once I was done playing around I put a small bead of Yamabond on the engine side of the hoses and slid them in place and kicked back for about 20 minutes. Went back over and tightened everything up and filled it with water expecting it to pour out of the radiator sides. Nope, held tight. Put the cap on and went to shredding for about 20 -30 minutes and then pulled up behind the barn and killed the engine expecting to be blinded by steam. None. Seemed to hold together.

I'll head out Thursday and drain off the water and go back in with a 50/50 mix and put some time on it. It's nice now that they got water service so maybe the radiator can be cleaned better.

That engine is tough as nails. Fired right up without hesitation. A little black smoke at first but after about 10 minutes it was all clear unless I got into some 4' sunflowers that were densely packed. Then it bogged down enough to come out of 3 high and into 2 high with a puff of black. Then through the sunflowers and back into some 1' tall grass and it would just take off running.

 

[caferacermike]

Well God damned son of a *****, I swear to you all.................. Woke up and drove the 20 miles out there and checked for water in the radiator at 7:30am, full. Filled it with 2.5 gallons of fresh diesel. Hit the key switch and it fired right up. BTW I keep a $20 solar panel connected to my "dead" battery. About 6 months back it would not turn the engine over if left for 2 days and with that panel it starts instantly every time. Too cheap to drop $120 for a new battery when this has worked so well. I then proceeded to shred like I was just trying to kill the Beaver so I could buy a second hand Deere instead. I burned 1.5 gallons of diesel over 6 hours of shredding. I'd drive back to the truck to get some ice water (BTW it was 105F by like 10am) about once an hour and each time I'd shut down the engine expecting to see steam come flying out..............Nonesuch. Turn the key and fire it off, get right back to work.

I "feel" like I'm averaging 1 acre per hour. If my math is correct, 43,560sqft in acre/5,280' (length of 1 mile)=8.25/3 (being 3' is what my shredder cuts including overlap)= 2.75. That would lead me to believe that I must drive 2.75 miles to cut 1 acre of land with a 42" shredder, right? My top speed is 7mph and some of that time is working fences, working corners, overlapping cut grass as I run out of turn around room, stopping to remove stones, stopping for jack rabbit crossings, as well as having to drop down into 2 low to cut some of the grass that just brings my fun to a crashing halt (will stop shredder/tractor dead in it's tracks 3/H). At that rate I'm gonna say 1 acre per hour unless it's just going really smooth and maybe 1.5 per hour.

My point is that I knocked out 5 or 6 acres in about 4 to 5 hours of actual run time without overheating or leaking. A record day for sure. I may need to reward this tractor with an oil change soon. All in 100-106F heat.