How would you do this?

[Secret Squirrel]

They sell a bit called a nail eater bit but you will need a file to sharpen it every once in a while

See Post #6. Already tried that. Got through one nail in one hole successfully, but the bit was pretty much destroyed in the process. Nothing left to sharpen or dress up. The whole cutting edge was simply gone. I guess these are unusually hard nails in this deck.

Rusty

 

[aczlan]

$15ish will get you a 1/2"x12" or 18" Dewalt or Irwin twist bit on Amazon. See: DEWALT DW1614 1/2-Inch by 12-Inch Extra Long Brad Point Twist Drill Bit - Amazon.com or Irwin 39108 1/2-Inch by 18-Inch Installer Twist Drill Bit - Amazon.com

Aaron Z

 

[Secret Squirrel]

$15ish will get you a 1/2"x12" or 18" Dewalt or Irwin twist bit on Amazon. See: DEWALT DW1614 1/2-Inch by 12-Inch Extra Long Brad Point Twist Drill Bit - Amazon.com or Irwin 39108 1/2-Inch by 18-Inch Installer Twist Drill Bit - Amazon.com

Aaron Z

The latter (1/2" installer drill bit) is identical to what I'd been using prior to my OP. It goes through the wood okay... stops dead at the nails.

A brad point twist drill bit might have worked better, but only if seriously hardened (e.g., cobalt or titanium-treated). Couldn't find one locally that was long enough.

I don't know if a brad point black oxide drill bit alone would have made much difference.

Rusty

 

[Secret Squirrel]

If you have an impact wrench you might try driving a lag bolt first, then drill. This could move things (nails) enough for you.

Hard to believe SK, but no luck with your most excellent idea. I am in shock. I would have bet my life that this approach would have broken through.

The problem seems to be that the worst nails I'm hitting are exactly 8" back, meaning I need to use a 10" long lag bolt to reach them. Around here, that means a 1/2" diameter lag bolt and it is apparently hitting those pesky nails dead nuts on - hence, no progress. If I could only find a 1/4" or 3/8" lag bolt 10" long, I think it would have worked.

On to the 3/4" solution... my last hope.

Rusty

 

[Soundguy]

did you try a carbide bit ( masonry )

 

[Secret Squirrel]

did you try a carbide bit ( masonry )

Back before I even posted, all the local "experts" I spoke with had totally diss'd the idea of trying a carbide masonry bit and hammer drill. Their reasons why it couldn't or wouldn't work could fill a book. I don't own one, but I could have rented one with a carbide bit to try for chump change. But I was warned against it, even by the rental folks themselves. Go figure.

I'm willing to give just about anything a try at this point. I already did pickup some new things to try this weekend (See Post #19). Perhaps I'll finally get lucky and end this madness.

Rusty

 

[Soundguy]

i've drilled out dozens of BOLTS that broke off in tractors using a masonry carbide bits. I got more holes out of a carbide's than I did from the TIN HSS bits or a lefty bit, before they dulled.

most of the bolts I drilled out wwere semi-hard gr5.. some were plain gr2

( one tractor had nearly 100 broke fasteners on it. I drilled bolts for a couple weeks! )

i don't know how the carbid bit will work with wood.. but I can't see it have a problem with a steel common nail?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

i've drilled out dozens of BOLTS that broke off in tractors using a masonry carbide bits. I got more holes out of a carbide's than I did from the TIN HSS bits or a lefty bit, before they dulled.

most of the bolts I drilled out were semi-hard gr5.. some were plain gr2

( one tractor had nearly 100 broke fasteners on it. I drilled bolts for a couple weeks! )

i don't know how the carbide bit will work with wood.. but I can't see it have a problem with a steel common nail?

I don't doubt anything you're saying. It was my very first thought (after I had run into trouble with the installer bit) that a hammer drill with any sort of hardened drill bit would blast through those nails like butter. Then the "experts" one-by-one talked me out of it. I was not only willing to rent a hammer drill and bit, but I was willing to buy one given that I've got some concrete drilling work to do in a couple months.

So maybe it would have been a good approach after all. At this point, I'm all set to try the 3/4" drill bit and hole saw solution. The weak link here is the 12" long 1/4" diameter extension rod that I'll have to use. If that doesn't work (and it might not), my "experts" be damned, I'll try your hammer drill with carbide bit solution.

Thanks for your input.

Rusty

 

[Leyenda30]

What if after hitting a nail move the hole over an inch or two and try another hole. It isn't likely they nail that close together. If that fails you could weld a 1/2" rod to a highspeed bit for an extension and gring it smooth. Good luck! JP

 

[Secret Squirrel]

What if after hitting a nail move the hole over an inch or two and try another hole. It isn't likely they nail that close together.

The bolt holes need to be centered on both the lower and upper posts to do any good. Moving over an inch would weaken those decorative upper rail posts to the point where they would be useless. Vertically, they are already as far apart as I dare put them. Closer together would mean a weaker rail post.

If that fails you could weld a 1/2" rod to a high speed bit for an extension and grind it smooth. Good luck! JP

Already have that essentially with my black oxide installer drill... but yes, a longer cobalt or titanium-coated drill might have been helpful.

Rusty

 

[pycoed]

I can't see the problem here: nails are about the softest steel you're ever likely to find, ditto carcasing bolts. Use a decent quality HSS (high speed steel) bit & it'll fly through them. No need to go for carbide or TIN coatings etc etc , just a good quality British, American, German or Swedish made bit (e.g. Dormer, Starret) not some hardware store Cheapistan special. Try your local engineering supplier, not Walmart!
You can get long series HSS drills, don't know if the 1/2" long series will be long enough, but easy enough to weld a bit of rebar to extend the drill shank if necessary. If you have a lathe, turn down the end of the drill & drill a matching hole in the steel bar, vee out join & fill with weld. Clean up in the lathe & you'd never know it wasn't made that way.

 

[J_J]

I would weld an extension to a carbide cement drill bit and touch up the carbide point for more aggressive cutting action. I would also use a 1/2 in drill.

 

[Mace Canute]

$15ish will get you a 1/2"x12" or 18" Dewalt or Irwin twist bit on Amazon. See: DEWALT DW1614 1/2-Inch by 12-Inch Extra Long Brad Point Twist Drill Bit - Amazon.com

This will work. The bit is a metal cutting bit and will easily cut through any nail in it's path. If it dulls, sharpen it.

 

[BeezFun]

I was not only willing to rent a hammer drill and bit, but I was willing to buy one given that I've got some concrete drilling work to do in a couple months.
Rusty

I don't think anyone suggested using a hammer drill, I wouldn't do that. I think the suggestion is to put the carbide bit in a regular 1/2" drill. I think a hammer drill would loosen the fasteners on the deck and not provide any advantage given that you're trying to drill through steel.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. carbide on a bit extender and go... carbid bits are some amazing things...

 

[not2old]

The carbide attached to the cutting edge of a concrete drill is the same material machinists use to cut metal on a lathe. I've resharpened them for metal drilling. The tip of the bit needs to be sharpened to look like a regular high speed bit. Use a slow speed if you can and use lots of pressure. The most likely problem will be breaking the carbide tip off, but considering that you're drilling wood and nails are really soft, it's not likely.
PS Don't forget to tell us how this ends.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. nails are pretty low grade stuff..

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The carbide attached to the cutting edge of a concrete drill is the same material machinists use to cut metal on a lathe. I've resharpened them for metal drilling. The tip of the bit needs to be sharpened to look like a regular high speed bit.

Just to be clear, my original thought regarding the hammer drill and 1/2" carbide bit approach was to rent, not buy. I don't think the rental guy would have been very happy if I had turned their expensive carbide bit from a masonry bit into a metal-cutting bit. But that said, I would like to hear more about what it takes to do this conversion at home.

Also to be clear, my largest and most powerful drill here at the house still only has a 3/8" chuck. I'm sure they are available somewhere, but around here there were no 1/2" carbide-tipped masonry drill bits available with 3/8" (or less) plain shanks... hence the need to rent (or borrow or buy) an SDS hammer drill and SDS carbide bit. The rental hammer drill in question does have a non-hammer (regular) drilling setting too... which, obviously, I would have tried first. I have no desire to crack or shatter the deck's pressure treated wood (at least not any more than I already have).

Use a slow speed if you can and use lots of pressure. The most likely problem will be breaking the carbide tip off, but considering that you're drilling wood and nails are really soft, it's not likely.

Been a lot of posts about how these nails are so soft and mushy as butter, etc., and how this task should be so easy and all that. Sure wish that were the case. I should have taken some pictures of the destroyed $25 nail eater bit after going through just one of those nasty nails. Soft and mushy? I don't think so.

PS Don't forget to tell us how this ends.

I will. I had to work yesterday, so I won't be able to try the 3/4" drill bit/extension rod/hole saw approach until later today. I fully expect it to work as long as the extension rod doesn't break. After all, these are just soft and mushy old nails, right?

Rusty

 

[pycoed]

Sorry, but you are not just listening!
1. Hammer drills are useless for drilling steel or wood. Their only use is for drilling masonry, when the hammer action helps to break up the medium. Wood you need to CUT, steel ditto.
2. You DON'T need carbide to cut steel, especially the grade of steel used for nails & carcassing bolts. Carbide tools are used to cut hardened steel well & ordinary steel fast.
3. HSS will cut hardened steel adequately well & ordinary steel perfectly well. It will piss through nails & joinery grade bolts.
4. I don't think you'd find a 1/2" holesaw, & in any case it would be clog easily with the wood. It would need to be a quality brand (Starret , Sandvik)
5. "Blacksmiths drills" have reduced shanks ( you say you have only a 3/8 drill) made by a by a decent American or North European maker (Dormer, Sandvik, Guhring etc) will drill YARDS of wood with nails & bolts in without needing sharpening.
6. Do NOT use an auger bit - the cutting edges will baulk when meeting steel no matter what they are made of.
7. If you are still not listening, & insist on using a carbide drill, then you WILL need (as others have pointed out) to sharpen it appropriately to cut steel. They will do a fine job on hardened steel (let alone the crap steel in nails etc. ), but ONLY when ground with the appropriate angles, & to acceptable sharpness, for cutting steel. If you can't do this (it requires a green grit or diamond wheel & knowledge/skill of the necessary angles, which are complex), then don't bother.
8. USE A GOOD QUALITY HSS BIT.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

The End!

I will. I had to work yesterday, so I won't be able to try the 3/4" drill bit/extension rod/hole saw approach until later today. I fully expect it to work as long as the extension rod doesn't break.

I am very pleased to report that the hole saw approach, as first recommended by flyerdan and further developed by Raspy, CurlyDave and myself, has done the trick! Finally!!! Thank you very much guys! You had the right idea! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

It did take going to a 3/4" hole (vs. 1/2" desired) to allow for use of the 12" long bit extension rod with its 11/16" diameter head, but no real harm done. The 1/2" thru-bolts are all in place, tightened and everything is now sturdy as a rock! Thank God!!!

Further thanks to everyone who offered their ideas and suggestions. This is a great place. I couldn't have done it without your help.

Rusty