HST driving tip needed

[KentT]

I agree with MossRoad completely -- don't even use the brake -- in fact, break yourself of that habit...

On my HST Allis-Chalmers (not my PowerTrac with a treadle) I never use the brake except as a parking brake. The HST will essentially serve as 4-wheel brakes, assuming you're in 4WD at the time...

Let off the forward before you get to where you're going and allow it to roll forward while you prepare to give it a nudge toward reverse to hold it. Once dumped, give it more reverse to back out... IMO, you can maneuver an HST much more precisely this way than you can a gear tractor, and I've seen no detrimental side effects in using reverse for a brake for short intervals....

I suggest that you practice this with lighter loads in the bucket, however, until you get used to it.. You don't want a sudden reverse movement with a loaded bucket up in the air...

 

[daTeacha]

Beenthere -- doing things suddenly is very spooky in this situation with this tractor/load/counterweight setup. When the bucket is up high enough to dump the rocks on the pile -- about 3 or 4 feet -- it is also at maximum forward reach. Even starting to dump it gets interesting as the C/G moves forward with the motion of the bucket. It is noticeably more stable with the bucket fully rolled back, but that doesn't solve the problem of unloading it. This is serious drawback of the current design CNH loader from my perspective. At just above axle height the bucket is as far in front of the front wheels as the rear tires are behind it.

I wasn't too concerned about standing the thing on it's nose since the rock pile was just under the bucket. Worst case would have been lifting the rears a little until the bucket contacted the pile. I just want to avoid it in other situations.

Next time I do this I'll try the technique of slowly approaching the dump site and letting it roll the last bit while putting increasing pressure on the back of the treadle. This will take practice since any sudden change in direction of either the tractor or heavily loaded bucket tends to feel exciting from the seat.

The thing that gets me is the piece of ground just doesn't seem very steep when I'm walking on it. When I look at the little drop off the side of the gravel and the 3 or so to 12 slant of the yard at that point, it just seems silly to think it's enough to make a 4400 lb rig get that spooky. But then again, a rear tire in the air is hard to argue with.

Thanks for all your suggestions, guys. I knew there was a way to make it work. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[kevincook]

It was already mentioned but I want to emphasize the need to be in four wheel drive when you are driving down a hill with your loader. The HST will work as a brake and your front wheels will be doing most of the braking. Your rear wheels will have very little pressure on them and can skid down the hill relatively easily.

When I am trying to dump a load facing down a hill I will keep the bucket low to the ground and let it push into the dump pile. I will then start dumping as I raise the loader. This way the loader is in contact with the ground the entire time and my stability is much better.

Kevin

 

[3RRL]

Hey Rich,
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( This is serious drawback of the current design CNH loader from my perspective. At just above axle height the bucket is as far in front of the front wheels as the rear tires are behind it.)</font>
I'm surprised, as thorough as youv'e been in your selection... that this and the pedal configuration are not to your liking? Sounds like you might be a little bummed out?

 

[KiotiJohn]

I thought you must have two pedals when you first posted. The treadle on my tractor is very easy to operate f/r quickly, and I'm sure yours is also. If that slope is steep enough, the HST can creep forward in neutral so you shouldn't have any problem having your foot in position to reverse as you glide to the stopping spot.

When you're ready for it to stop, you'll just start pressing toward reverse.

The only thing you'll notice is that the hydraulics may heat up a bit more if you are holding yourself on the slope with reverse. That shouldn't be a problem, but you may want to take a cool down once-in-a-while if you've been making a lot of trips and holding on the slope.
John

 

[MossRoad]

Did you ever see that link to the tractor roll over test videos that someone posted on TBN a while back? They were a real eye opener and it really didn't take much to roll that thing over.

I found it, but the link was no good any more. I then searched google for umbilical+tractor and got the following good link.
http://www.mne.psu.edu/sommer/projects/tractor/tractorFY1/

Watch the videos, imagine you are in the seat of that thing, then change your shorts! It doesn't take long. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[gbick]

When I went tractor shopping to replace my 1952 Farmall Super C / Johnson loader with a more modern version (4wd, power steering, down pressure, etc.) I went to the Kubota dealer to see what they had in the 30ish hp range. Hydrostatic trans was a must, as I had just had knee surgery. Well he understood me completely and showed me exactly the tractor I had described. While sitting on the orange beauty, I could imagine blasting through snow that would mire the Farmall. Then I looked down and couldn't believe my eyes. The turning brakes are on the same side as the hydro pedal !! I WOULD NEED TWO RIGHT FEET!!! When I asked the salesman how you could possibly use the turning brakes in this configuration, he muttered something about not needing brakes with hydro. As the tractor is primarily a snowmover, functional turning brakes are manditory. So down the road I go to the Green&Yellow place. Looked at a 4310ehydro and you can bet the first thing I checked was the pedal arrangement. Ah, brakes on left, go pedals on right- the world isn't totally absurd. I wonder how many sales have been lost to this silly feature alone. I know Kubota builds fine equipment, but they need to address this foolishness Ok, my rant is over. I wasn't concerned about the treadle/twin pedal difference and could have adapted to either, but after using the JD two pedal I can't imagine a better setup.

 

[KiotiJohn]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( As the tractor is primarily a snowmover, functional turning brakes are manditory. )</font>
I can't imagine why this would be true, but I'll take your word for it. I don't have to do snow, so I don't know, but I've never seen a time when I "NEEDED" my brakes except when on a good slope to avoid a little creeping in HST neutral.

I'm very happy to not need much braking. I can turn so quickly with about two f/r moves that the brake turning has never been needed.

I guess snow plowing is a different story.
John

 

[gbick]

When pushing snow, especially over an icy base, the tractor will slide to the downhill side, even with very little slope. Also many times when I have a good push going the front tires are off the ground and the brakes are the only steering I have.

 

[KiotiJohn]

Thanks Greg, that explains it very well, and I can see how you would need to brake steer. Another great reason I'm happy to live in a snow-free environment.
John

 

[daTeacha]

/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif Like anything else, it's a two sided coin. The very long reach that makes the tractor tippy in this situation is something I figured as desirable for other chores I need to do, one of which is filling some small gullies by picking up brush piles with the grapple and dropping them into the gullies, then squashing them with down pressure from the bucket. This is followed by a layer of "used hay" from the barnyard. The reach lets me put the stuff further from the edge of the gully without venturing so far into it with the wheels. And, yeah, 6 or 8 inches is a lot in that situation. Ditto for loading a pickup. Dumping firewood into the Dakota from the side with the B7100 meant putting a piece of OSB alongside the truck and carefully nosing up to it with the bucket raised, but even then the load needed to be moved around by hand to allow even filling of the truck.

Same with the hydro. I was convinced I needed gear drive for a long time. Then I drove the hydro on the lot and found it much smoother and therefore better for delicate work such as sliding the bucket under the manure against the barn wall, placing sandstone blocks into a retaining wall, etc. Again, better for some jobs, but worse for others.

And the brakes -- Well, I still think the pedals should be on the other side. I can't think of a situation where that would be a disadvantage. I like turning brakes, and I can use that feature, sort of, in conjunction with the cruise control. It's the left brake pedal that shuts cruise off, so the right one can work as a turning brake. Further, the mechanism that shuts the cruise off is electrical, so I can disconnect it or better, put a switch on it so I can shut it off as needed and have turning brakes.

If there is some mechanical/design reason the pedals need to be on the same side as the hst pedal, the factory should include a switch with an automatic default that shuts down the cruise when the brakes are used, but can be switched to not do that, kind of like the traction control on my wife's car. It's on whenever you start it, but you can shut it off if you want to.

 

[Doc_Bob]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Did you ever see that link to the tractor roll over test videos that someone posted on TBN a while back? They were a real eye opener and it really didn't take much to roll that thing over.

I found it, but the link was no good any more. I then searched google for umbilical+tractor and got the following good link.
http://www.mne.psu.edu/sommer/projects/tractor/tractorFY1/

Watch the videos, imagine you are in the seat of that thing, then change your shorts! It doesn't take long. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif )</font>

WOW!!!!!!!!! Great lesson in ROPS + Seat belt!
Bob

 

[Dmace]

I had the same problem as you, I am taking all my large rocks from the back yard and dumping them on the side of my raised driveway. I creep over the side of the driveway as far as possible and dump.

Do you have a Parking Brake set lever ?

By chance, I found out that the parking brake lever on my Ck20 can be set at any position on the brake pedal. So on steep inclines, I set the parking brake just enough to stop the tractor from moving and when I use the HST pedal to move forward or backwards it easily overpowers the brake and moves. There is barely enough brake pressure to keep the tractor from moving and I only do it on small manuveurs and not for a lot of driving.

Works like a charm.

 

[daTeacha]

No, I have the dual pedals with the brake set by pulling a small T handle next to the seat. To release it, you need to push on the brake. I have not found any other release yet. Using the treadle pedal with reverse pressure to control forward motion downhill seems to work pretty well. Having to stop going uphill to change ranges is pretty awkward. I either let it roll back a bit coming off the brake or set the weight and the bucket down to hold it still until I get my foot on the pedal, then hold it with the HST and lift the bucket and weight.

 

[KentT]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Having to stop going uphill to change ranges is pretty awkward. I either let it roll back a bit coming off the brake or set the weight and the bucket down to hold it still until I get my foot on the pedal, then hold it with the HST and lift the bucket and weight. )</font>

Most people just pick a speed range and stay in it unless it doesn't work for what they're doing... they don't shift speed ranges like shifting gears....