Hydraulic Mystery

   / Hydraulic Mystery #1  

Lary-74426

New member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
12
I have been tearing out my hair, and so has the dealer on this one. I have a Yanmar F 235 D with a VITEKS V-2 loader. The bucket on the loader has always "hesitated" while dumping. When I dump a load, if I try to back drag with the bucket, it folds. You can actually move the bucket by hand. If you hold the lever in the "dump" (lever forward) position for about 7-8 seconds the cylinders fill and the bucket becomes ridged. It is a pain to have to wait that long every time that I dump a load. By the way if I move the lever to the back position the bucket moves just fine. It seems to me that the weight of the material in the bucket is forcing too much fluid out of the rams.
What has been done to remedy, with no success.
1. The tractor was taken back to the dealer where it was found that it was plumbed wrong. They had run the return line from the loader to the top of the transmission where the dipstick was supposed to be, and plugged off the small line from the pump. They have now replumbed it as per the diagram on the Hoye Parts site, which made the 3-point system work properly, it did not work properly at the start but with this change it does now. They thought that the replumb had taken care of the bucket problem, but after working the loader it did not take care of the problem.
2. I have taken the return line from the loader controls off and ran a hose directly to the transmission dip stick hole so that I could watch the fluid flow. When the bucket goes limp and the lever is held in the forward position, there is no fluid coming out of the return line. At all other times, during bucket curl, and lift and lower bucket, there is fluid coming out of the return line. By the way I am running the motor at 1700 RPM during this test.
3. I have found that after 30+ minutes of operation that while looking into the dipstick hole I can see bubbles or foam in the fluid.
4. The dealer thought that the filter might have been plugged, so they asked me to replace the filter, and punch more holes in the filter for better flow. They gave me a Napa part number that I cannot find at this point. No change.
5. The dealer thought that the suction line might be leaking, so had me change the 4 hose clamps around the filter housing. No change.
6. The dealer called the "Master" mechanic in Vietnam, and he said to adjust the pressure regulator on the controls. When adjusted 2 turns one way the lift would not move, when adjusted 4 turns in the opposite direction the only change was that fittings leaked. So adjusted to original position.
7. I decided to reverse the hoses on the control to see if the control valve was bad. Other than making the operation backwards no change.
8. I have been dealing with the salesman at the dealership, and must admit that he has been trying his best to resolve this problem. Now the owner has gotten involved, and wants the tractor to be taken back for the third time. It is a 432 mile round trip, I have to rent a trailer, and take at least one day off of my project. My thought is, they know all of the symptoms, and I am willing to try about anything, so why spend the time and money to take it back again!!
SOMEBODY HELP PLEASE​
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery #2  
It almost sounds like the nut came off of the piston inside the cylinder. Take the lines off the cylinder and cap them with steel caps. Now try to move the bucket. If the rod travels in and out of the cylinder, the nut came off. Or, after re-reading your original post, it sounds like a faulty piston seal. Both will give similar symptoms. Try capping the cylinder as I said above, I'll bet you find it will move. Other than that, I would have to see a hydraulic schematic. There can only be a couple components involved, given all else is functioning properly. Tell that Vietnamese mechanic to go back to the rice patty. You should never play with a pressure relief valve without a pressure gauge.
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery #3  
Well, if I understand your description of the problem the lift function of the loader is fine? And the 3 point is ok also? The only problem is with bucket dumping feature? Could be a couple of things,,,,,, but a quick check would be to reverse the lines on the lift spool with the lines for the dump spool, if the problem moves to lift then the spool has a problem.
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery #4  
Brain storming ideas:

What if you removed the cyl. lines and then reversed the cyl. Rehook the lines up and try functions. If the dump works ok and the curl fails then the ideas of a nut off the inner cyl. would make sense. To have both cyl's fail with nuts off would be interesting. Keep us informed please.

Dick
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery #5  
Welcome to TBN Lary:D

I think I might have an answer to your problem, I think you have a 3-position valve on your loader vs. a 4-position valve that is more common on newer machines. You are missing what is called the "regen" or "regenerative" function for the curl circuit. A lot of early Kubotas had this same problem also.

Read THIS post for a excellent description of your problem. You can also do a search for "regen" for even more reading.

Hope this helps a least explain the problem for you and your mechanic, but unfortunately the only fix is a new valve.
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thank you, I will try it, but I failed to mention that I broke and replaced a bucket ram. Had the bucket down while using the 3point back hoe, caught a large rock with the backhoe, and bent the rod on bucket ram. The problem was there before and after the replacement.
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thank you JS5020. Never thought about switching spools. Will try next week and let you know!
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery
  • Thread Starter
#8  
Thank you for your thought Dick, but the cylinders on this loader are not reversable, the ends are different in the way that they mount.
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery
  • Thread Starter
#9  
Thank you kennyd for your reply, you have hit it on the nose. When I attempted to forward the link to the dealer, I find that they have either blocked my e-mail or no longer have e-mail. I would love to "flame" the dealer, but do not know if that is allowed.
Lary
 
   / Hydraulic Mystery #10  
Lary-74426 said:
Thank you kennyd for your reply, you have hit it on the nose. When I attempted to forward the link to the dealer, I find that they have either blocked my e-mail or no longer have e-mail. I would love to "flame" the dealer, but do not know if that is allowed.
Lary
It is not, but you could contact those people the dealer used for references and let them know what your experiences have been. You did check some references before buying, didn't you?
 

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