Hydraulic Pump Upgrade (Deplorable Diesel)

[JCoastie]

I have the "fits but not recommended MT240", just curious, would a higher flow pump like that allow for lift and curl of the FEL at the same time, or open/close the grapple and curl at the same time?
I can't do both functions at the same time with the stock setup.

 

[ptsg]

I have the "fits but not recommended MT240", just curious, would a higher flow pump like that allow for lift and curl of the FEL at the same time, or open/close the grapple and curl at the same time?
I can't do both functions at the same time with the stock setup.

It may not make this huge difference but will definitely help a decent amount.

I suspect they use too big of a valve (as in, not matched to the system flow) along with possibly lack of flow metering features on the spools, which makes it harder to do 2 functions at the same time. It also contributes for the floppy bucket syndrome.

 

[Bearsixty7]

I have the "fits but not recommended MT240", just curious, would a higher flow pump like that allow for lift and curl of the FEL at the same time, or open/close the grapple and curl at the same time?
I can't do both functions at the same time with the stock setup.

I can lift and curl simultaneously on mine, It's a little tricky to position the joystick to do but it is possible. Not sure I can run the Grapple at the same time though, don't recall trying that.

 

[Avenger]

I have the "fits but not recommended MT240", just curious, would a higher flow pump like that allow for lift and curl of the FEL at the same time, or open/close the grapple and curl at the same time?
I can't do both functions at the same time with the stock setup.

It *might* help. It will depend how the valves are configured. But lets take a look at why it fits but is not recommended for the MT240.
With a hydrualic gear pump, the pump is directly tied to the engine, and therefore always turning. That turning creates flow, at the cost of horsepower.
I believe the rule of thumb is something like 1GPM = 1HP @ 1500 RPM. So this pump will take roughly 11HP at 1500 RPM off the top, so to speak.

I'm guessing that why its not recommended for that tractor. I could be wrong.

 

[Dmorf]

I wouldn't think there's much of an extra hp demand with a larger pump until it experiences high pressure. Unless a function is used, fluid is being pumped through the system with only friction losses from the hoses. There would be a higher load when a function isn't being used, but I wouldn't think it'd be significant. If the engine lugs because a function is being used, that might be a problem. I doubt it though.

I read somewhere else that deplorable didn't recommend the pump for some tractors because it would create impliment speeds that are too fast for some users. I think I'd like that personally. However, from watching how less experienced people tend to make large unfeathered joystick movements, I could see it being an issue for some.

 

[JCoastie]

I can lift and curl simultaneously on mine, It's a little tricky to position the joystick to do but it is possible. Not sure I can run the Grapple at the same time though, don't recall trying that.

I asked my dealer about that a while back with regard specifically to the grapple, this was their response...

The 3rd function is using a splitter valve that diverts the flow to the grapple, there is not enough pressure to operate both at the same time. The MT3 series is the next size that would have that capability.

Which I find odd, since it seems the hydraulic spec for the MT2 and MT3 spec are the same flow rate. I questioned that, and they didn't respond, though pressure and flow are different, and I bet the pressure is the same as well, that seems to be pretty standard around 2k.

 

[Dmorf]

The pressure relief valve on the mt3 is probably set at around 2480 psi, just like my mt3e. Pressure capability of the pump would probably be around 3000 psi. It's possible the stated 8.2gpm is at a different psi for the mt2 vs mt3, but I don't know.

The diverter valve for the FEL 3rd function on the mt3e diverts all of the flow from the bucket cylinders to the 3rd function lines. It's most likely the same on the mt3 since they are basically the same tractor.

It's been my experience that dealers know very little about the equipment they are selling and regularly state false information as if it's fact. I never trust what they say without verifying. This is a good example.

 

[rodneyn]

Yes you can use compression fittings. The tube will most likely be metric, so something like this will work perfectly. Doesn't even need flare.

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Just purchased fittings from Parker store they are rated for 6000 psi. I used them for adding in diverter they are easy to install, yes metric version used. You do need thick wall tubing for hydraulic applications greater than 1/16” wall thickness preferably stainless steel material.

 

[aczlan]

It *might* help. It will depend how the valves are configured. But lets take a look at why it fits but is not recommended for the MT240.
With a hydrualic gear pump, the pump is directly tied to the engine, and therefore always turning. That turning creates flow, at the cost of horsepower.
I believe the rule of thumb is something like 1GPM = 1HP @ 1500 RPM. So this pump will take roughly 11HP at 1500 RPM off the top, so to speak.

I'm guessing that why its not recommended for that tractor. I could be wrong.

HP needed for a larger pump would depend on the system pressure.
Most of our tractors are open center with a gear pump, the volume is directly proportional to the RPM and the pressure varies by the restriction on the output (ie: if you are using a valve).
On our L3830 when sits between 100PSI and 300PSI when its not doing anything (300 PSI in the winter on a cold start, 100PSI when its baling hay in the summer and fully warmed up.

Per the calculator at Surplus Center 1GPM at 300PSI takes 0.2HP, 10GPM at 300PSI takes 1.9HP

So, going from a 8.2GPM pump to a 10.99 GPM pump would go from 1.6HP to 2.1HP at rest.

It will take more HP at full load (13.3HP for 8.2GPM at 2500PSI vs 17.8HP for 10.99GPM at 2500 PSI), but the difference in "baseline load" is minimal.

Aaron Z

 

[Jaygyver]

I have the "fits but not recommended MT240", just curious, would a higher flow pump like that allow for lift and curl of the FEL at the same time, or open/close the grapple and curl at the same time?
I can't do both functions at the same time with the stock setup.

I have a '21 MT235He and as @Bearsixty7 mentioned you can lift/curl or dump/lower at the same time but it's a VERY narrow slot to do it tho.
It's basically unusable for any fine work, or if safety is involved.
I have a Summit 3rd function and I haven't really tried hard to test it but it seems I can't curl/clamp, etc, at the same time while using my 4in1 bucket.
From what I've read the MT230, MT235 and the MT240 are identical tractors except for the HP. I did end up with the larger LL3302 FEL also.