Buying Advice I need a new mower!

[Sun Treader]

I'll try to keep things succinct! I'm currently mowing about three acres of yard, its not manicured lawn, but it isn't pasture either. This is our third season at our place, I bought a Lowe's special Husqvarna when we moved here. Its a 25-something-hp Briggs and 48 inch deck. The mower has performed way beyond what anyone should expect of it, so no complaints about the mower. I've really beaten it hard. Replaced the steering spindles twice, the deck spindles twice, steering linkage, front tires, replaced rear tires with ATV tires, and generally maintained it to the manual and replaced anything that breaks. I end up mowing at night a bunch so I've got LED flood lights front and back. I need a heavier duty machine, I'm just working this one harder than it was design for.

The land has all sorts of slopes, hills, bumps, dips, and other obstacles. The process of restoring the property back to lawn meant a ton of bush hogging with the mower and tractor, just plowing into stuff taller than I am. Like I said, the mower has been really beaten and pushed beyond its limits and its done way better than I could expect.

My big frustration is how the deck loads up with debris and clogs. If the grass gets too tall or is even the slightest bit wet the deck will clog up in seconds so I have to stop and get filthy under there scrapping out the grass goop by hand. Getting the deck off and flipped over is a major pain. It has a deck wash port which has proved useless. I've tired parking in a few inches of water and running the deck and that isn't doing anything much either. A pressure washer is the only thing that gets the deck cleaned out.

This time of year I'm mowing twice a week to keep ahead of things. If it rains for a couple of days the grass grows so much even once it dries out a bit it's going to take a couple of days of progressively lower passes to get back to its finish height. Finish height is the second highest setting on the mower.

Now that we've been here a while and gotten a better idea of our needs I'm thinking about the next mower. I'd like to sell this one while it still works well and before any sort of big failure that would kill its value.

I don't need to go any faster, I actually like my time mowing so the speed of a zero-tern isn't a selling point, I don't think they'd work with the hills anyway. A front-deck looks like a great solution. Why isn't every mower a front deck? Access for cleaning and sharpening is a game changer. What's the downside? I've been reading about Grasshoppers and the Husqvarna and Kubota front deck machines. The Grasshoppers and the Kubota are probably far too expensive for a dedicated mower, my concern with the Husqvarna front-deck is it looks to be built to about the same standard as my current mower; which while pretty good, isn't a heavy duty machine. The AWD on the Husqvarna would be ideal though.

We have a Case 495 utility tractor for the big stuff and I really like the idea of a B-series Kubota for the smaller stuff and the things that would require being on the turf. The mid-mower on those looks well built enough but the problem of getting under there to clean it and change/sharpen the blades is the same problem I have now. A rear finish mower could work. I'm also interested in the flail mowers Woodmaxx is carrying now. They have a smaller one with a hydraulic offset that could eliminate the clumping problems, I just haven't run one before. The front flail they offer on the L-series looks magnificent but the price is way out there and that's just too heavy a machine for the grass.

That's the long story, short question is what's a good mower that isn't going to clog, be easy to clean under the deck, and provide a decent cut without tearing up the turf? Speed isn't important, traction is.

Best solution would be to have dedicated machines for everything; big Case for heavy stuff, small B-series for other tasks, front-deck mower for the yard; but then that's a lot of machines to purchase, store, and maintain.

Thanks for any input!

David

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

Do yourself a favor and check out the Grasshopper front-mount mowers, which you mentioned. I got so sick of the deck clogging up on my old garden tractor (and having to remove it, flip it over and clean it multiple times in one mowing) that I finally sold it and bought a Grasshopper 729BT with the PowerFold deck. The ease of maintenance with the fold up deck is a huge blessing. The main advantages to a front-mount are:

1. Ease of deck maintenance;
2. Mowing under fences, trees and shrubs is easier since the deck is out in front of you instead of under you;
3. Longer wheelbase makes them ride much better than any garden tractor or mid-mount zero turn without suspension; and
4. Great hill holding ability.

By the way, the deck on my front-mount Grasshopper stays a LOT cleaner than my garden tractor's deck did. Not sure why, but it never clogs up.

Another option would be to look at one of the higher end Deere garden tractors that has the drive-over deck. You may have to disconnect the deck and flip it over to clean it, but at least you don't have to wrestle it out from under there like most garden tractors. With your hills, you would want one with 4wd or AWD, and 4-wheel steering would be really nice too.

 

[jenkinsph]

Don't know if it will help in your situation but would suggest you try out some high lift blades. The increased air flow might help keep the deck clear. That might be a cheap fix for you.

Do you have implements for the Case to make lawn improvements? I would get the lawn smooth and graded as best I could before buying a new mower. I find that this will often make a huge difference in how easy it is to mow long term.

I have the Deere mowers and so far clogging has not been a problem in heavy grass. I mow some very steep areas and it seems to stick to the hill sides well enough.

 

[Sun Treader]

I'm going to track down a Grasshopper and check it out. The front deck just seems like such a no-brainer, I can't figure out the downside and I haven't found anyone with anything negative to say except you can't get as many on a trailer as zero turns, which makes sense but doesn't matter for me. Getting under overhangs out be a big help too.

If I go with another lawn tractor it would have to either be AWD or have a differential lock at a minimum and at that point I'm into SCUT territory prices. The ATV tires are a huge help and don't hurt the grass at all, I highly recommend that change but there are plenty of places I need to be careful and I still end up getting out to push/pull about one a mow.

Does anyone know of a rear finish mower that will lift and tilt the deck high enough to do regular maintenance on the underside? Seems like that would be a really nice feature, I just haven't seen any that can tilt up rather than just raise or lower. Maybe with a hydraulic top link? Anyone tried that?

The Case is out for maintaining the lawns. Its close to 8000 lbs with filled R1s and leaves deep impressions even in good conditions. I was thinking about a much wider deck but there are plenty of places the 48" deck lets me get in when I couldn't with a larger one. Going up to a 54" or 60" deck will work out with some adjustments but the Case would need a 7' mower to cover its tracks. There was a 6' brush hog with it so I've been using that for the majorly over grown areas or to back up the hills that are too steep for the regular mower. That's been effective, but its just too big and heavy a machine to be on the turf.

I've tried mulching and high lift blades but have ended up back at the stock blades, which I think are somewhat high lift. The trick seems to be to get material shot out as quickly as possible and not let it cake up on the underside of the deck. The windrows really pile up, a rear discharge deck would be a nice bonus.

I really like the idea and execution of the Husqvarna R322T, its small with AWD and the front deck but looking at the photos, videos, and diagrams it looks pretty consumer grade and very similar in engineering and built to my current machine. Not a bad thing, just wanted to be into something a step up in durability and toughness. The mower isn't getting the abuse it did in the past couple of years, the yard is pretty well established now and I'm not just plowing into the tall brush like I was.

 

[CreekyB]

Does anyone know of a rear finish mower that will lift and tilt the deck high enough to do regular maintenance on the underside? Seems like that would be a really nice feature, I just haven't seen any that can tilt up rather than just raise or lower. Maybe with a hydraulic top link? Anyone tried that? .

I have a rear finish mower on my L2501 and it lifts and tilts enough to get to comfortably when raised (without hydraulic top link). I initially went in to buy a B2650 with a midmount but there was a package deal going on the L2501 at the time and it was a cheaper choice for me.

 

[Sun Treader]

I have a rear finish mower on my L2501 and it lifts and tilts enough to get to comfortably when raised (without hydraulic top link). I initially went in to buy a B2650 with a midmount but there was a package deal going on the L2501 at the time and it was a cheaper choice for me.

That looks pretty darn good as far as access goes. Not quite the complete stood-up and open of the front mounts but looks easy to get to blades and wash things out. Even just being able to lift it well clear of the ground and shake things over some rough ground would be a big help.

The Ls really have some nice features and capabilities, I sat on a Grand L6060 at the dealer and that was by far the nicest tractor I've ever been on, that was a really nice machine. Even the little ones are too big for me though, really want the light weight and the small size of the Bs though. The heavy stuff the Case can do, lighter stuff in the orchard and on the turf could be handed by a little machine.

Nice Ram too!

 

[murphy1244]

May want to givw Ventrac a look, tad expensive but I like it. Easy flip front mower,, am using Gator blades. Never a clog.

 

[The Fred]

I have a rear finish mower on my L2501 and it lifts and tilts enough to get to comfortably when raised (without hydraulic top link). I initially went in to buy a B2650 with a midmount but there was a package deal going on the L2501 at the time and it was a cheaper choice for me.

My mower is similar to Creekys. One can use a cable comealong hooked to the tractor roll bar and rear of the mower and lift that deck way up high for access.

Safety first of course use a light safety chain and prop rod before getting too far underneath.

Either way you cant clog up a rear discharge deck at least in the 16 years I've had my 6 foot Landpride FDR1572 I couldn't.

Regards, Fred

 

[CreekyB]

That looks pretty darn good as far as access goes. Not quite the complete stood-up and open of the front mounts but looks easy to get to blades and wash things out. Even just being able to lift it well clear of the ground and shake things over some rough ground would be a big help.

The Ls really have some nice features and capabilities, I sat on a Grand L6060 at the dealer and that was by far the nicest tractor I've ever been on, that was a really nice machine. Even the little ones are too big for me though, really want the light weight and the small size of the Bs though. The heavy stuff the Case can do, lighter stuff in the orchard and on the turf could be handed by a little machine.

Nice Ram too!

Thanks the Ram was a heck of a find, perfect Gen 1 Cummins driveline, ok-ish body. Needed all brakes and all front end parts. Not bad for 500$ Going to be starting on the brakes and front end this weekend.

The B series is a little smaller than that L2501, that little guy is a no frills machine but does everything I want it to do. The higher HP machines in the BX line would pull a 60" rear finish mower well. I think you would probably save some money over the MMM as well.

There are way cheaper rear finish mowers out there. I got the Landpride for two reasons, readily available parts, I am going to break it I am rough on things. And mostly, I could tack it on in the 0% financing deal with the tractor

 

[CreekyB]

Either way you cant clog up a rear discharge deck at least in the 16 years I've had my 6 foot Landpride FDR1572 I couldn't.

Regards, Fred

The worse I have been able to do is bog the tractor down to stalling. My property next door had not been mowed in 8 years or so. Running the FEL over it low to catch the big stuff while mowing high the first time.

 

[Sun Treader]

The worse I have been able to do is bog the tractor down to stalling. My property next door had not been mowed in 8 years or so. Running the FEL over it low to catch the big stuff while mowing high the first time.

I think you're speakin' my language there. Wide cut, no clogging, can run off a B, sounds good.

I tried out the BX and the B at the dealer and they were both great little machines. The only reason I'm leaning toward the B is its just got so much more capacity for tractor type things and could handle a few of the implements from the Case and handle mowing duties.

 

[CreekyB]

I think you're speakin' my language there. Wide cut, no clogging, can run off a B, sounds good.

I tried out the BX and the B at the dealer and they were both great little machines. The only reason I'm leaning toward the B is its just got so much more capacity for tractor type things and could handle a few of the implements from the Case and handle mowing duties.

The reason I was leaning more towards a B as opposed to a BX is true Cat 1, seems like the BX series is almost Cat 1. I had completely made my mind up that if Kubota then B2650. Like I said, package deal on the L2501 made my mind up for me.
L2501 + FEL + BH77 Backhoe + 60" Rear Finish + 6-" Boxblade was cheaper by a good few thousand than the B2650. Which was interesting there considering that the only differences were the tractors and FELs all else was the same. I know I gave up some "creature comforts" in that the B had more premium perks, but honestly, when it is 100 degrees and 90% humidity I really do not care if there is a floormat under my feet or that the tractor has a 12v socket and tilt steering.

I looked at getting the MMM instead of rear finish mower quoted with the B2650 but I am not getting any younger and standing up to attach the mower appeals to me more than laying down. Also I think the 3pt finish mower was a bit cheaper than the MMM.

If you do go with the B series 2650 or above you would have less a problem than I do with bogging the FDR1660 down in tall grass. I think the B2650 has more HP at the PTO than the L2501 does, certainly the 3350 does as well.

Another thing that sold me on the L2501 is that the engine is Tier IV with just direct injection. No EGR, no DEF and no DPF. Not even any new fangle vortex flux capacitor thingies

Clarification: By bogging down, I mean stalling the tractor in 3 feet of years old grass, brush poison ivy, virginia creeper and cat briar, with a finish mower.

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

May want to givw Ventrac a look, tad expensive but I like it. Easy flip front mower,, am using Gator blades. Never a clog.

When I posted, I forgot about the Ventrac. If I had steep hills to deal with, that's the machine I'd have. Yes, they are expensive, but the pucker factor on one of them HAS to be much lower than it would be on a tractor or zero turn.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Very few grasshoppers around here. Dealer support is not great but the design IMHO is superior. The only disadvantage I can see other than overall length is that in dry dusty conditions you may get more exposure versus a side discharge mid mount.

I am a big fan of rear mount finish mowers. I've owned two in over 20 years. Land Pride and Woods. The just don't break. Replaced a couple belts and a couple wheels. That's it. If your yard is open enough and you don't have lots of obstacles they are a great option.

I have no experience with Ventrac but I am confident they are a fine machine.

 

[stevem5215]

I have a Steiner 420 and if you want something for use on a hills that are scary with any other machine this is it.

Steve

 

[woolyAcres]

I have a Steiner 420 and if you want something for use on a hills that are scary with any other machine this is it.

Steve

@stevem5215- This is a front mount mower but not zero-turn, correct? Can you tell us how well/tightly it turns. I'm very interested in a Steiner or Ventrac for use as a general mower and lots of other stuff that a zero turn just won't do: snow plow/blower, brush hog, stump grinder, etc. But the majority of it's responsibilities would be mowing so it needs to do that well. I'd only occasionally rent other attachments.

Can you compare this to a zero-turn mower?

 

[stevem5215]

Steiner (and Ventrac) are front mount attachments yes. I have a 48" mower deck for the Steiner. You can get them in 60" and 72". Mine came with a 48" or I'd have gotten the 60" to do the cutting faster. The balloon tires make for a nice (but bouncy if driving it fast) ride. And Zero turn effect of a center pivoting machine is everything a zero turn is IMO. (I bought a Simplicity ZT-2500 this year for a deal $2600) The comparisons between the two are. Both will Zero turn (mostly) around trees. The Simplicity is faster overall but the Steiner is more "powerful" with more uses (I have a blower, mower deck, 50" rotating brush for snow, and a vertical lift loader (the big one). But for just cutting grass the Simplicity is easier to use and of course it's newer as my Steiner is a 1994 model. IMO both have advantages and disadvantages. The Onan engine uses a lot of fuel. The electronic injection system of the newer 25hp Simplicity is easier on gas. I can cut the whole yard (about 4 acres) with 3.5 gallons that the simplicity holds. That's pretty good compared to the Steiner which would use about 5 gallons. But, the Ford 1900 diesel will only use 2.5 (or so) for the whole thing too. Just depends on your needs. I've had the Steiner the longest of all my machines. About 10 years now. It was a good purchase out of the gate and I just added to the inventory when I moved to a new house with a bigger yard. My wife runs the Craftsman for the most part (this year she's been using the ZTR a lot more) and I run the others. Of all of them though the Steiner is the most versatile due to the attachments and size. And one good thing about it is that the 4wd system is one of the greatest ones in use. Never will you deform the grass. On sheer ice the 4wd system will move right along. Even better than walking on it. It's truly an amazing system on it. I've actually plowed snow on driveways with it that I couldn't move a car or walk on due to the icy nature of it underneath. I can't say enough about the 4wd capabilities of the Steiner. It's that good. And I have the Ford 1900 with 4 wheel assist to compare as I used it with a 73" Allied snowblower for a few years (sold it eventually as the Steiner could do everything it could easier). So there you have it.

Steve (Steinering the snow) Look it up on youtube.
Moving snow with a Steiner - YouTube

 

[bspeedy]

I have a Steiner 420 and if you want something for use on a hills that are scary with any other machine this is it.

Steve

I would only recommend the Steiner if you absolutely must have the hill / slope stability. My father just spent 25 grand (!!!) on a Steiner 440 with Kubota diesel and 6' finish mower. I helped him do the 50 hour service two weeks ago. The oil change was fairly simple but different from the simple oil change on a regular tractor. Same with hydro filter change. When doing the checkout on it after the service I noticed a squealing noise when turning and moving. After investigation, I realized that the belt-driven hydraulic pump had a loose belt. Access to the belt adjustment was very difficult and the adjustment took 30 minutes or more. If the pump fails, I don't know how the heck it would come out of it's buried location. Perhaps the tractor halves would have to be separated? Steiner mechanics have my respect after that. Also noticed that it has some sort of phantom hydraulic leak that we could not figure out. Additionally, the coolant overflow line is chafing on the sheet metal due to the haphazard way it is mounted. It is 20% worn through already. Seems like an afterthought. Probably on it's way back to the dealership. This will be the second trip to the dealer in 50 hours. In my opinion, these machines are worth about 10 grand new. How they get 25K is a mystery to me. I don't like the way they are engineered or built, except for the mower deck which is super stout. For the money he spent on this hunk of metal, he could have bought a cabbed B-series with a MMM. And, as a bonus, I would know a helluva lot more about it when and if he has trouble with it.
I know some of you guys love these machines. I've spent some seat time on his 420 when he had it. Just wasn't that impressed. I'm a regular tractor guy, I guess.

 

[stevem5215]

As for maintenance, I do all of it myself other than the hydro fluid in the drive system. (my hydro system is drive drive. No belts) My dealer (Hartman Enterprises in Hanover Pa) has a flushing machine that he uses that makes that service worth it. Otherwise I just check and add fluid a little when needed. I have never had a major breakdown with it. I've had some electric parts go bad and have replaced spark plugs, wires and the coils due to a misfire. Which really turned out to be due to a electrical connector that had some corrosion in it. Otherwise it's been a trouble free machine for me. If I were buying new though, I would not buy the diesel engine. Like the poster above I've read some horror stories about them. Mostly on the older ones but I guess they are still a pia after reading his story above.

Steve

 

[woolyAcres]

@stevem5215-

Thanks for your comments. It seems rare that someone can directly compare a small articulating tractor (Ventrac or Steiner) to a zero turn on the same property and the same jobs. I appreciate all you've written. I think I've got the same 20HP Onan in my Wheel Horse 520. Not easy on gas, but it does provide pretty good power.

@bspeedy- Thanks for your comments as well. I had no idea these were so expensive new. I've only been watching the (well) used prices. It's helpful to have a view from both sides. Thanks.