In a quandary over tractor work, Long

   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #1  

BobReeves

Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2003
Messages
508
Location
Tulsa OK
Tractor
Ford 3000
Will try to keep this as short as possible. I wanted a ditch on each side of our 600 foot drive so water run-off wouldn't cut across the dive and wash out what gravel is there. We just bought this place last fall and are still recovering from the purchase so money is pretty tight. Can't afford a tractor just yet so I called a guy whose number was on a sign stuck on a telephone pole.

Tractor Work 555-5555... Called, made an appointment for an estimate. Met him out at the end of the drive and explained I would like a wide shallow ditch on each side of the drive so a riding mower could navigate it and the drive leveled as best he could with the gravel that is there. I told him I plan to haul in more gravel but right now I mainly want the ditch to eliminate the several places that water runs across the drive. As a side job I would like about 1/2 acre tilled.

He said he could do the job, the drive would cost $300.00 and another $50.00 for the tilling. I said fine do-it.. Well it went down hill from there, every week I would not hear from him until I called, he would always say he was hung up on another job that took longer than he thought. After 3 weeks I called and threatened to find somebody else (should have). He finally shows up, runs the rippers from his box blade down each side of the drive and disappears for another week. He then shows up with his tiller and gets the tilling done and gone again. Another week, of phone calls and no shows, an he comes by at 5:00 on a Friday evening, just makes a total mess and leaves a bill for $300.00 in the mail box.

I called him to see if he thought he was done and explained that I felt we had a communications problem. All he had done was sorta dig a ditch in places leaving piles of dirt and gravel all over the place. I asked him to stop by so we could talk about what his idea of a ditch was. He then told me he didn't have the equipment to be able to continue the ditch all the way to the road ditch because there is a slight rise in the landscape just before it gets to the road. It's about a 2 foot rise before it drops off into a 4 foot deep ditch at the road. I felt I could rent a back hoe for a day to take care of the last 20 feet so I let it slide.

At this meeting I thought we had a meeting of the minds as to what a ditch is but all he did when he came back was spread the piles of gravel and dirt around so they weren't so obvious. Still didn't do anything as far as leveling the drive.

He thinks he is finished but I have not paid him yet. The wife says just send him $50.00 because the tilling is the only thing he did right. I am thinking maybe paying him 1/2 the 300 for a half A$$ job. What would you do?
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #2  
Did you get anything in writing? A basic written description of what was to be done? Short of that, it is hard to tell what his idea of a ditch was compared to yours.

Doing the right thing would have been the thing to do; he should have done right by the customer. At least, should have come out and reviewed it. Even if there was a misunderstanding of what you wanted, maybe he could have said that, and that he could do it as requested for so much more, or even just ate the time/$$ and did what was needed.
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #3  
Trust your instincts on this guy. he obviously does'nt care what you want.

Even without a written contract, grading work, IMHO the customer is the one to decide if it is done in a satisfactory fashion.

A gentleman who I deal with, grading and clearing, has always checked back before handing a bill over.

Too bad for you.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #4  
Ignoring for the moment that your funds are tight, let's look for a moment at what this job is worth. If I understood your post, it involves 1200' of ditches (both sides of a 600' drive), and 1/2 acre tilled. Tractor work, even if cheap, doesn't run much below $50/hour for man and machine anywhere in the country. It looks like he estimated about 6 hours for the driveway ditches and one hour for the tilling. Even if he was figuring $25/hour, which is dirt cheap, that's 12 hours and 2 hours.

As you said, you got your tilling done, and owe him $50 for that. My guess is it took more than an hour.

Now, your ditches are another thing. I don't see how it would be possible for him to do the 1200' in 6 to 12 hours with a tractor and box blade. Pooh on him for misleading you. My guess is he did as much work as he could for $300, then quit. Again, pooh on him for being a poor estimator. But, 1200' of groomed ditch is a big job, and I wouldn't have touched it for less that $1,200, and maybe more.

If you got a solid 6 hours or so of work out of him, and if it is progress in the right direction and hasn't left you worse off than your started, then you own him the $300, and will have to wait until you save a little more money to finish the job.

If it has left you worse off than you started, then he has an obligation to come back out and do something to leave you at the point where you are $300 ahead in the work to be ultimately accomplished. Since he seems to be willing to work cheap, a good compromise might be to say, "This probably turned out to be a bigger job than either of us thought. If you can come back out and put it in the shape I expected, then I can find another $150 to throw into the pot." That way, you get your task done cheaper than you should have expected, and he gets a bone thrown to him to help him over his error.

If you are worse off, and he won't cooperate, then don't pay him.
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #5  
That's why I have a $25,000 tractor out in the driveway collecting bird turds. I got tired of paying people to build ponds in the middle of my driveways. Am I the only guy that owns a tractor around here that realizes you can't build a berm at the bottom of the slope and expect it to drain?
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #6  
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Am I the only guy that owns a tractor around here that realizes you can't build a berm at the bottom of the slope and expect it to drain? )</font>

Did they install drain tile? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Incredible.
-Mike Z. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thanks guys, still not sure what to do, pay the full amount and chalk it up to expierence. I really don't want him back out here just to make a bigger mess.

Here is the thread that started this mess, guess I should have rented...
Renting
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #8  
Nope, and if they did it would probably run up hill. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
   / In a quandary over tractor work, Long #9  
BobReeves:

You ought to reread OkeeDon's post above. His anaylsis is good.

The guy underestimated the time (based on your description). One hour to deep till an acre with a CUT & 5'-6' tiller not enough time for most soil. Cutting a 1/4 mile of nice sloped ditch takes more than a day, especially if you're going to do a nice finish job.

Being a cheap SOB myself I understand your quandry. Had a roofing job 8-9 years ago. Guy bid cheap-didn't even include cost of dumpster! As we got into the project I realized what had happened. Bought dumpster myself and insisted he take more money, then I operated as the "contractor" to make sure it got done correctly.

Suggest (if the guy seems decent) you pay him by hour and supervise it yourself. It'll cost you more, but probably less than a "real" contracting company. Plus, you'll learn something about the subject of time/motion, estimating, etc.

JEH
 

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