International 444 - Power Steering Doesn't Work

[jepaul]

Hello,
I'm trying to troubleshoot my Dad's power steering on his 444. The tractor runs fine other than the power steering hasn't worked in 20 years! It has a tandem hydraulic pump: one chamber devoted to the front-end loader/3 point hitch, and the other to the power steering. The front-end loader hydraulics work, but the power steering does not. A few months back Dad took the power steering cylinder/valve assembly in to get fixed. The company that refurbished it said it now works fine. However, after having installed the power steering cylinder, the power steering still did not work. We then had the pump checked out and the company said it was beyond repair, so we purchased a new one (expensive) and installed it. guess what? Power steering still does not work. (Front-end loader works fine once again.) Now we are confused and frustrated. I thought I'd check here to see if anyone has any other ideas. At this point I can think of only two possibilities. One, that the power steering cylinder wasn't actually fixed. Or two, a device that I'm not familiar with is the culprit. (I'm not experienced with hydraulics). The devise I'm referring to is shown at the tip of the green arrow in the pic below. It looks essentially like a steel block, and has hydraulic lines attached as per sketch also shown below.





I should also mention we did some maintenance: cleaned the strainer and filter, drained and replenished fluid, etc. The last check I did was to remove the two hydraulic lines from the bottom side of the block shown above, i.e. the power steering supply and return, and confirm fluid flow while turning the starter over. There was plenty of forced fluid coming out of the supply line. I did not test for pressure as we didn't have available fittings. I'm very curious about this block, since it must have a purpose other than direct line connections.

Any help would be most appreciated!
Jason

 

[aircommuter]

Based on that diagram that block may be a pressure regulator. You need the get the fittings and a gauge to test on both sides of that block. Without testing you will be chasing your tail.

 

[jepaul]

Based on that diagram that block may be a pressure regulator. You need the get the fittings and a gauge to test on both sides of that block. Without testing you will be chasing your tail.

Thanks. If it is a pressure regulator, it's possible there could be something blocking a passageway and forcing the valve to remain in relief mode. A gauge connected to the power steering supply outlet should then register a low pressure (20 - 200 psi). If it's not actually a regulator, with gauge connected to the power steering supply outlet, gauge would read max and we could blow a line or the gauge since there would be no relief value b/w pump and gauge. Here we would want to just engage the tractor starter without ignition for safety. It's worth a try.

 

[aircommuter]

That is what I do at first, I also use a 5000 psi gauge and hose to match.

 

[LD1]

Can you possible take a better picture?

It looks like the lines coming out of the bottom are going straight to the PS cylinders????

Where/how does the lines at the steering column, for the rotary valve, tie into the system.

There should be a line supplying the steering column. You need flow/pressure there.
Then there should be lines running out to the cylinders. These get pressure/fluid as the steering wheel is turned.
then a return line.

ITs possible you have replaced parts that didnt need to be replaced because you were just guessing at what was wrong instead of finding teh actual problem. the issue all along could be the steering column itself.

 

[jepaul]

Can you possible take a better picture?

It looks like the lines coming out of the bottom are going straight to the PS cylinders????

Where/how does the lines at the steering column, for the rotary valve, tie into the system.

There should be a line supplying the steering column. You need flow/pressure there.
Then there should be lines running out to the cylinders. These get pressure/fluid as the steering wheel is turned.
then a return line.

ITs possible you have replaced parts that didnt need to be replaced because you were just guessing at what was wrong instead of finding teh actual problem. the issue all along could be the steering column itself.

I'm actually a few hours drive from the farm at the moment. The lines coming out of the bottom are in fact going straight to the PS cylinders. The PS mechanism is somewhat unique I believe, with the cylinder/piston, valve/spool, and actuator all in one compact package not much bigger than the PS cylinder itself. In the pic below, the steering wheel is off to the right and is connected to an arm (yellow arrow) which is connected to the cylinder valve at the yellow circle. The steering column is simple and has no lines attached to it. The steering wheel is mechanically linked to the arm with the yellow arrow. The arm and rod connected to the PS valve moves either fwd or bkwd depending on which way the steering wheel is turned.



Actually I just contacted my father and he mentioned he took the PS assembly back in to get tested by the company who refurbished it. In fact they confirmed that it is not engaging, so that appears to be the culprit. I just wish they had tested it properly in the first place. Unfortunately we replaced the hydraulic pump which we possibly didn't need to do.

 

[evansga]

I have been reading your past posts on the Power Steering with interest. I just got an English 444 and it has similar problems. I don't know how long the PS hasn't been working. It was a one owner tractor 2400 hours and the owner passed away. The 3 Pt hitch did not always work well, so I drained the oil and cleaned the suction strainer which was plugged. The 3PH now works fine but I have still have no PS. I forgot to clean the orifice filter ( What does it do )
but I will. Did your tractor work okay when you got the PS assembly properly repaired?

George

 

[jepaul]

I have been reading your past posts on the Power Steering with interest. I just got an English 444 and it has similar problems. I don't know how long the PS hasn't been working. It was a one owner tractor 2400 hours and the owner passed away. The 3 Pt hitch did not always work well, so I drained the oil and cleaned the suction strainer which was plugged. The 3PH now works fine but I have still have no PS. I forgot to clean the orifice filter ( What does it do )
but I will. Did your tractor work okay when you got the PS assembly properly repaired?

George

Hi George,
We decided not to proceed with fixing the tractor as my Dad's health had gotten to the point where he lost interest in fixing it. It currently sits idle at the farm for now.

Before pulling the plug on this I inquired into sourcing an aftermarket power steering conversion kit. The best option I found was this one:
Ford Tractor Parts HTF3A491 Power Steering Conversion ASSIST KIT CYLINDER (Ford4 | eBay
However, I was uncertain whether this one would suffice as it mentions it's not designed for a front end loader and my Dad's tractor has a a front end loader.

The other option I was looking at, the easier option possibly, was to convert it to manual steering by taking the drag link that goes from the steering box to the booster cylinder and have it lengthened out until it attaches to the steering arm on the spindle. After a bunch of searching I talked to Clayton at Robert's tractor in Ohio. I notice they have the part still:
International B414 354 364 2300 Power Steering Booster
It's fairly pricey. For me to order that part, pay the CDN/US exchange rate, duty tax, and shipping fees that price would probably come to over $1100 CDN me. When I mentioned that to Dad I could tell he wasn't keen on it.

Hopefully this info helps you in some way, if only to give you a couple of options. Please let me know how you make out.

Best,
Jason

 

[evansga]

Hi George,
We decided not to proceed with fixing the tractor as my Dad's health had gotten to the point where he lost interest in fixing it. It currently sits idle at the farm for now.

Before pulling the plug on this I inquired into sourcing an aftermarket power steering conversion kit. The best option I found was this one:
Ford Tractor Parts HTF3A491 Power Steering Conversion ASSIST KIT CYLINDER (Ford4 | eBay
However, I was uncertain whether this one would suffice as it mentions it's not designed for a front end loader and my Dad's tractor has a a front end loader.

The other option I was looking at, the easier option possibly, was to convert it to manual steering by taking the drag link that goes from the steering box to the booster cylinder and have it lengthened out until it attaches to the steering arm on the spindle. After a bunch of searching I talked to Clayton at Robert's tractor in Ohio. I notice they have the part still:
International B414 354 364 2300 Power Steering Booster
It's fairly pricey. For me to order that part, pay the CDN/US exchange rate, duty tax, and shipping fees that price would probably come to over $1100 CDN me. When I mentioned that to Dad I could tell he wasn't keen on it.

Hopefully this info helps you in some way, if only to give you a couple of options. Please let me know how you make out.

Best,
Jason

Hi Jason,
Great to hear from you so quickly and with such detailed information.
You had mentioned the company that had originally checked the equipment had confirmed it was not engaging when it was taken back to them for the second time. I had assumed they had pinpointed the problem and it was fixed.
My tractor does not have a loader, so perhaps your first option might work for me. I haven't done anything yet other than clean the filter and change the oil, so I guess I will need to start digging further.
Sorry to hear about your dad's health.
George

 

[evansga]

Hi Jason,
I wanted to give you an update on my tractor as it may relate to yours. I had a hydraulic guy take apart the cylinder on my 444. He found the problem and it was a broken seal inside the cylinder. He fixed it and it works now. I still have to replace the pump so it is not working on the Tractor yet but it will. Perhaps yours could be repaired as well rather than the expense of replacing the cylinder.
George