International McCormick 47 Knotter/Needle Timing????

[CliffordK]

Ok,

I picked up a used International 47 Baler.

I'm still testing it. Some of the feeder gears/chainrings were in bad shape, but hopefully I'm getting those straightened out.

However, with my test baling, every few knots, I hear a WHAM, and I break a shear pin.

There seems to be a stop under the carriage, I presume to protect the needles & etc. Anyway, it is located about 6" before the knives. At the point everything stops, the needles have moved forward, say 3" or so. No enough to penetrate the hay, I don't think, but just enough to trigger the stop.

To get running again, I replace the shear pin, turn the flywheel backwards slightly, pull the needles back towards the resting position and fire it up again.

The knots aren't perfect, but I seem to be getting good enough of bales when the shear pin does't break. So, what do I have to adjust to ****** the timing of the knoters/needles slightly?

I suppose I could also disable the stop, but obviously it is there to protect my needles from being busted if something major fails.

What I'm thinking is the needles/knotters seem to be adjusted OK, but they are being triggered a moment too early.

 

[tessiers]

I am not familiar with International balers but the needles on a new Holland do not penetrate the hay, they run through 2 slots in the plunger, if they were in the hay any movement on the plunger would break them. Looking at your diagrams on messicks yours appears to be similar to the New Holland. If it ties sometimes but not others, the needle drive or brake is not working properly, timing would break shear pin every time. Needles should enter the slots in the plunger just about when they clear the hay. The last thing I would do is remove the plunger stop, a set of needles will be several hundred dollars if you can find them, you can buy a lot of shear pins for that kind of money. If you do not have a manual I would find one, it should have timing marks somewhere and they should be covered in the manual.

Just my 2 cents, probably worth a penny.

 

[CliffordK]

Thanks,

It looks like I have some bearings to replace on the pickup tines for the baler (unrelated) before I start baling.

I will try to hunt down a manual shortly. I see IH has the parts diagrams online, but not the instruction manuals.

I have wondered if part of the problem is load related, so if the baler has a light load of hay, it bales just fine, but if it has a heavy load of hay, somehow the timing of the plunger/needles gets off. Perhaps caused by play in the system. Anyway, once I get the pickup tines working, I should get a better test of the baler.

 

[Tx Jim]

I'll 2nd what tessiers stated about PH stop. It's on a baler to protect the needles DO NOT DISABLE it. I'm more familiar with JD & NH sq balers but all sq baler principles of operation are the same. Check to be sure the needle brake is good & snug. The needle brake holds the needles in home position(not allowing the needle frame to drop) after knotter system trips to tie allowing chains/gears to pull needles into bale chamber at the correct time. On correct timing of needles: With PH on a "compression stroke",with knotter tripped to tie, the point of needles should be even with the upward pointing channels in bale case when the tips on PH & tips of needles are even with each other IE face of PH should be 1-1/2 to 2"s away from tips of needles with needle points flush with upturned bale case channels. IIRC there's a video on the WWW of a NH baler showing the correct timing procedure.

 

[bjr]

Yes, listen to the posters as you DO NOT want to break the needles. I have a NH 269 that has just about drove me to mental therapy sessions. I have over tightened and loosened every spring adjustment on this machine also tried to make Sisal twine work (won't go into that right now). Those needle brakes have to be adjusted "juussst right", not too tight or not too loose. I've probably went thru close to 30 flywheel shear bolts. So, I've went wrong on almost every adjustment there is and this is with trying to follow the directions in the users manual and knotter manual. I'm not gonna use the phrase "I think I have right now" anymore, just too many disappointments. I want to go thru the plunger assembly yet, just too broke to do anything else to it now. Such is baling, I guess. bjr