Backhoe Is a double acting lever right for a backhoe attachment?

4lane · Sep 3, 2017

I have a Kioti CK30 - I'm looking to get a backhoe for some building work. My Kioti has a single set of rear remotes but the lever controlling them is a double acting lever. That is, it always returns to neutral when released and does not have a fixed pull or push position.

Can this be used for a backhoe attachment? I've read you shouldn't hold the lever in a push/pull position or oil will flow through the relief valve, overheating the oil. I was prepared to jimmy a way to keep the lever in an 'open' position to power the backhoe so it won't snap back to neutral. Would love some insight here as I'm new to remote hydraulics.

Thanks!
Rob

leonz · Sep 3, 2017

4lane said:
I have a Kioti CK30 - I'm looking to get a backhoe for some building work. My Kioti has a single set of rear remotes but the lever controlling them is a double acting lever. That is, it always returns to neutral when released and does not have a fixed pull or push position.

Can this be used for a backhoe attachment? I've read you shouldn't hold the lever in a push/pull position or oil will flow through the relief valve, overheating the oil. I was prepared to jimmy a way to keep the lever in an 'open' position to power the backhoe so it won't snap back to neutral. Would love some insight here as I'm new to remote hydraulics.

Thanks!
Rob

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The remote set is used to provide oil under pressure and return the oil back to the tractor UNLESS you buy a back hoe attachment with its own tank-which is better by the way.

the open center hydraulic system is not ment to be messed with by jimmying the valve spools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Send Island Tractor a PM and ask him what brand of back hoe he has and how his back hoe is set up for his Kioti.

4lane · Sep 4, 2017

So the only use for remotes with a double acting control is for opening/closing a feature of an implement? It cannot provide hydraulics to power an implement? Or what is the purpose for then?

CincyFlyer · Sep 4, 2017

Yes, that's true. On my tractor, the power for the backhoe is from the "power beyond" port on the loader joystick, then to the inlet on the BH, and out to the dump line (so I must plug the two lines on the back of the tractor together when not backhoeing.) That should be cheap and easy to arrange, if your valve has a power beyond port.

4lane · Sep 5, 2017

leonz said:
=================================================================================

The remote set is used to provide oil under pressure and return the oil back to the tractor UNLESS you buy a back hoe attachment with its own tank-which is better by the way.

the open center hydraulic system is not ment to be messed with by jimmying the valve spools!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Send Island Tractor a PM and ask him what brand of back hoe he has and how his back hoe is set up for his Kioti.

I spoke with Island Tractor as you suggested, and he maintains the opposite: "Those valves are the same as the spring loaded valves except for the spring. Many guys get sick of the spring and just take it out. The spring is useful if using the remote to control a topping lift or side link or similar implement that requires feathering or occasional adjustments but otherwise it serves no purpose."

LD1 · Sep 6, 2017

Don't know why everyone is feeding you bad info.

The remote is just fine for a backhoe. With the backhoe attached (which will have it's own open center valve) holding the remote valve just let's oil pass through. None of this nonsense of building pressure and opening a relief.

Many many many guys run backhoes off remotes. Just use a bungee cord to hold the valve.

Also, don't believe that a backhoe with its own hydraulics is better. That's bad info also. They each have there place and purpose, and people choose one over the other for different reasons....but as a blanket statement that a one is better than the other.....bad information yet again being spread like it's gospel.

4lane · Sep 6, 2017

Thank you for setting the record straight. I couldn't see why a double acting lever would pose a problem. The manual specifically says not to due to oil heat generated by the open relief valve. I just needed confirmation it would be ok.

LD1 · Sep 6, 2017

Manual is spot on.

Forcing oil through a relief will indeed overheating it.

You wouldn't be doing that. With the backhoe hooked up, and the remote bungee corded open, you would be forcing the oil through the open center backhoe valve at low pressure. That don't generate heat.

Just make sure the backhoe you get has an open center valve

N2DFire · Sep 6, 2017

4lane said:
Thank you for setting the record straight. I couldn't see why a double acting lever would pose a problem. The manual specifically says not to due to oil heat generated by the open relief valve. I just needed confirmation it would be ok.

View attachment 520933

LD1 said:
Manual is spot on.

Forcing oil through a relief will indeed overheating it.

You wouldn't be doing that. With the backhoe hooked up, and the remote bungee corded open, you would be forcing the oil through the open center backhoe valve at low pressure. That don't generate heat.

Just make sure the backhoe you get has an open center valve

LD1 is correct & you are right to be concerned, the part where you're getting lost is the manual states "...once the remote cylinder has reached the end of it's stroke"

If you were directly operating a cylinder and it reaches the end of it's travel - if you keep trying to pump fluid into it then the relief valve will operate. Same thing happens when you operate your Front End Loader. If you roll the bucket back as far as it will go & don't let off the stick - the system goes into relief.

Where connecting a backhoe to your remote is different (as LD1 also stated) is that the backhoe controls are also open center just like the tractor system so all you're doing with your rear remote is allowing fluid to flow thru the BH system or not. There's no stoppage of flow to cause the system to go into relief. Now once you start operating the BH, it would be just the same as the FEL - once you reach the end of travel if you keep pumping fluid to that cylinder the system will go into relief.

Clear as mud.

Now - if using a bungee cord bothers you, you should be able to add the 2nd remote valve that is "detented" which means it will stay where you move it till you un-move it. LOL
The down side it it will cost somewhere around $350-400 for this second valve.
(Assuming the CK30 supports 2 remotes, I know the CK35 does and just assumed so you know how that usually works out).

We didn't get the remotes when we bought the tractor so I've priced adding them both and it's right around $800 for the pair.

Unless you just really want/need the 2nd remote - you can go thru a lot of bungee cords for $400

4lane · Sep 6, 2017

N2DFire said:
LD1 is correct & you are right to be concerned, the part where you're getting lost is the manual states "...once the remote cylinder has reached the end of it's stroke"

If you were directly operating a cylinder and it reaches the end of it's travel - if you keep trying to pump fluid into it then the relief valve will operate. Same thing happens when you operate your Front End Loader. If you roll the bucket back as far as it will go & don't let off the stick - the system goes into relief.

Where connecting a backhoe to your remote is different (as LD1 also stated) is that the backhoe controls are also open center just like the tractor system so all you're doing with your rear remote is allowing fluid to flow thru the BH system or not. There's no stoppage of flow to cause the system to go into relief. Now once you start operating the BH, it would be just the same as the FEL - once you reach the end of travel if you keep pumping fluid to that cylinder the system will go into relief.

Clear as mud.

Now - if using a bungee cord bothers you, you should be able to add the 2nd remote valve that is "detented" which means it will stay where you move it till you un-move it. LOL
The down side it it will cost somewhere around $350-400 for this second valve.
(Assuming the CK30 supports 2 remotes, I know the CK35 does and just assumed so you know how that usually works out).

We didn't get the remotes when we bought the tractor so I've priced adding them both and it's right around $800 for the pair.

Unless you just really want/need the 2nd remote - you can go thru a lot of bungee cords for $400