Is this electrical quote for barn too high?

[Larry_Van_Horn]

Folks,
I got a quote to run an electrical service to my barn and pond. I know that electrical work can be pretty expensive, but this is really expensive. I was wondering if you folks might give me some perspective on whether these numbers are out of line. It would be most appreciated.

Install 100 amp 240 volt feed to building
1) run 150 amp line across basement 120ft to garage
2) install 150 amp conductors in conduit from garage 300 ft to barn (I will be digging trench for him)
3) Install a 100 amp 20 space rain proof panel in barn
4) Install a 120 volt GFI receptacle below panel

Install a 50 amp 220 volt feed from barn to pond
5) install 50 amp conductors in conduit 200 ft to pond.
6) install a 50 amp 12 space rain proof panel
7) Install a 120 volt GFI receptacle below panel

Electrician says that upsizing to 150 amps will limit voltage drop tpo 3%.

Price is $4,900
Is this in line with your experience? I appreciate all your thoughts.
Larry

 

[_RaT_]

Larry, ask what size wire and whether ALU or CU is being used for the 150 amp service. Also for the 50 amp service to the pond. Go to Home Depot and price the same wire per foot. This is the bulk of the cost. The panels are relatively cheap. It will give you a good idea of where his labor/material is breaking down. I would have no problem installing aluminum over copper for the main run that is 300'. You can save some money there and the lugs designed to handle this size wire work very well with aluminum. With you doing the trenching, the hard work is done.

 

[Larry_Van_Horn]

Rat,
I am pretty sure that he was going to run copper. I think he mentioned 1-0 but that is when he was thinking about running 100 amp service. It just seemed pretty high with me doing the the trenching. What size wire should I get a price for? Thanks for your thoughts.
Larry

 

[Junkman]

Larry, I believe that you need to get a better idea of exactly what is going to be done. You have given some details, but there is a whole lot more that needs to be put into the equation. What brand of panels are spec'd for this job. If you are using Square D QO series, it is going to cost a lot more than if you are using a lesser brand. I don't want to offend anyone, or I would mention some of the lesser brands by name. This is not to imply that they won't work just as well, but some brands cost more than others. Also, you refer to a 100 amp panel in the barn, and a 50 amp panel at the pond. How is this going to be set up? I would want to know the mechanics of this arrangement before commenting. Copper wire is very expensive for this type of installation, and isn't warranted in my opinion. Also, what is the size of the conduit that is being used? While the trench is open, lay in another 2 conduits..... one for telephone and one for water if you should want it at some later date. You can always pull a 3/4" water line through a 2" conduit.

 

[Larry_Van_Horn]

Junkman,
Thanks for chiming in. To be honest I didn't even know the right questions to ask to make the right inferences. I will give him a call tomorrow and get brands of product and more details. I would like to get the price down a bit. I really wnated to do water to the barn, but I figured that I would need to bury it 4 feet deep to keep it from freezing. The electrical trench only needs to be 18" deep and my electrician said to make it 24". Am I missing something on the water issue?
Thanks,
Larry

 

[Junkman]

The thing about the water is dependent on how much frost you get in the ground. Around here it is about 36" that is considered safe. I would just dig the trench to 36" if you want to be safe. It doesn't cost any more if you are doing the digging yourself. You won't use any more materials, because the dirt is going back into the trench. The trench should have a 3" sand bottom and about 6 inches of sand on top of the conduit. Remove all the big rocks from the dirt that comes out of the trench before backfilling. About 6" below the surface of the trench, you should put in a tracer tape warning future diggers about the conduits. When you are ready to install the water line, you will just pull it through the conduit. I like the black plastic NSF water tubing that comes in 100', 250', 500' rolls. It is easy to work with and it is also cheap. It rarely cracks unless it is hit with a very hard freeze, and if that happens, it is easy to just pull it out and repair or replace it. I wouldn't do a direct burial of the water line. I made that mistake once. Luckily, it has never failed, but I keep my fingers crossed. If you need any other help, ideas, etc., don't hesitate to ask. I will always share my knowledge and my learning experiences (mistakes) with others.... The trick is to only make the same mistake once. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Almost forgot to mention that you should purchase some 100' lengths of 1/4" poly rope to put into the pipe as you are installing it. I tie a small box wrench to the end and keep dropping it into the next piece of pipe as I assemble and glue. When i have the entire length of pipe glued up and complete, I then drop it into the trench. Easier to work above ground. I also use a piece of newspaper under each joint to keep it clean during gluing. I am certain that you will work out your own method of assembly of the piping. One thing to remember is to allow it to firmly set up before moving it. PVC has a tendency to want to come apart when it is first glued, so I always clean the pipe first with the solvent and then put glue on both pieces. Then I push them together and hold until I know that it has taken a set. Sometimes giving it a slight twist will help spread out the glue and make the bond stronger. Just don't rush the job. The worse thing to do is work under pressure because someone else is waiting for you to finish. You can have all this done well in advance of the electrician arriving, even if that means that the two ends will be finished the day that he arrives. Get the long parts done beforehand. If your job warrants it, you might be able to find a 1000' spool of the poly rope......

 

[em14]

I think that I would not place any communication or net work wire/cable next to an electrical line due to the interferance you could recieve from the electrical line. This goes for in the building as well as in the trench.
Maybe Inspecter 507 could coment on this as well as water lines in the same trench.
Leo

 

[Junkman]

considering that each one is in its own conduit, and the trench is 12" wide, with plenty of room for each conduit to be away from the next, I doubt that this is going to be a problem. We are talking about a telephone line to the barn, which isn't too sophisticated...... /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[em14]

Sorry I didn't catch that the conduits would have 12" seperation. It sounded to me like they could be laying next to one another.
Leo

 

[8NTX]

That's probably not a bad price for the job. I just finished a large electric project - 600'+ distance to a boat house; 80 amp service for the boat hoist, light circuit, trail lights, etc. The quoted price was $6000. My parts, sub-panel, wire, conduit, etc. cost about $2,000 and I did 95% of the work (with some help from my son and stepson). Had an electrician come down twice for the design, some installation work and final hook-ups at a cost of $500. It took 4 hard week-ends but it's (98%) finished. Used #4awg copper wire and rewired hoist for 240v to lessen impact of voltage drop.

You might find that an electric supply house has better price on wire than Lowes or HD, but everything else will probably be higher (my experience). Good luck on your project.