JD 348 Knotter problem

[Lucerne]

I have a JD 348 Baler where I can't fix a problem with one knotter. It ties a knot but is not strong enough to hold when the bale comes out of the baler (knot undoes). I've tried nearly everything from billhook tension, twine holder tension, replacing twine holder & disc, replacing knife arm & varying it's clearance from the billhook (as the manual suggests). What I have found (by chance)that decreases it's occurrence is when the twine disc position is way out of the correct spot. But hasn't stopped it completely. Please help.

 

[Tx Jim]

Do you have an operators manual? Have you checked for correct timing of needles to plungerhead?? Are needles coming up into knotter high enough? I'm fairly decent at repairing a wire baler but have limited experience on a twine knotter. It's unfortunate that JD doesn't offer a knotter tech manual unlike NH.

 

[slowzuki]

I had a similar problem with mine and used a NH tech manual (same knotter) to fix it. Mine the needle was too far and the twine disc was somehow making a small nick in the twine leading to breakage. I adjusted the wiper a bit too because the knot would hang and break some of the time.

 

[Tx Jim]

I had a similar problem with mine and used a NH tech manual (same knotter) to fix it.

I'm curious. Are the knotters the same or just similar? Will the billhooks or twine discs interchange on JD & NH? I know JD & NH wire twister hooks won't interchange.

 

[AKfish]

I priced a new knotter assembly for a JD 336 baler last year. IIRC - it was $1,200 and change!!! :shocked:

After I settled down a bit... I asked myself a couple of questions - how much is 2 weeks or a month of aggravation worth? And, if you're in the middle of getting your hay done and the baler goes down - how much is that worth?

Never shelled out the money cause the problem was minor - twine holder tension setting.

But, I think I would if it really came down to it....

AKfish

 

[slowzuki]

Knotters do wear out, but a brand new 1200$ knotter will not perform any better unless the right baler mechanic sets it up. Not many left who can setup a square baler.

Re knotters, there are only 2 basic designs. One leaves a cut tail, one doesn't. I've used both and they both work. The JD and NH both use the same type of knotter, MF uses the other type (or used too, not sure now they have the Hesston inlines)

 

[Lucerne]

Thanks Tx Jim & slowzuki, I'll check the needle timing but why isn't the other knotter playing up as both needles are exactly set up the same. It wouldn't be something to do with the billhook not holding the ends of the twine long enough to get a stronger knot formed.

 

[zzvyb6]

Needle timing has nothing to do with it. You didn't say whether the knot was breaking or coming undone. If its coming apart, is it too loose just after a tie or does it look OK until it sees tension from a downstream pickup or unloading?

If that's the case, then a loose knot is cause by low bale density or a damaged billhook tongue. If the knot looks OK after the tie but can be pulled apart aftr the fact, then the twine may be doubled back into the knot. That's caused by the billhook tongue closing on top of the twine. Look for a bad (worn) roller on the knife arm or a bent upper end of the knife arm that prevents the twine from being guided over the billhook tongue.

 

[Lucerne]

Mine the needle was too far and the twine disc was somehow making a small nick in the twine leading to breakage.

The twine or knot isn't breaking, the knot is just undoing when tension is put on it when the bale comes out of the chamber. One or both ends seem to get doubled up (looped) in the knot. Occurs about one in 20 bales.

 

[Lucerne]

Thanks for the reply zzvyb6. That's what I thought initially when I replaced the knife arm with a new one. The roller looks fine. But still no difference. With the roller, does it matter what way around it goes on ?

 

[Lucerne]

If the knot looks OK after the tie but can be pulled apart aftr the fact, then the twine may be doubled back into the knot. That's caused by the billhook tongue closing on top of the twine.

Not sure what you mean here. Don't you want the billhook tongue closing on top of the twine to grab it, to pull it thru the knot ?

 

[Rhetto]

Hi. Can anybody help with my JD 348 the bale is cut off on angle on the finished end of the bale? No problems on the start of bale. Can be as sharp as 30 degrees??? It doesn't seem to be feeding the hay evenly into the bale chamber, maybe? I have also noticed that 1 string is approximately 40 longer than the other. Cheers.

 

[Tx Jim]

Welcome to TBN
Bale shape problems are normally due to inadequate size of windrow & feeding pickup on side next to plungerhead. It helps bale shape to feed windrow into pickup on extreme RH side giving auger the opportunity to spread hay before it enters bale case. Have you attempted to change pin(key 6B) location in feeder fingers arm. When you get bales squared up twine lengths should even up with no need to attempt alteration of tying mechanism

 

[Rhetto]

Welcome to TBN
Bale shape problems are normally due to inadequate size of windrow & feeding pickup on side next to plungerhead. It helps bale shape to feed windrow into pickup on extreme RH side giving auger the opportunity to spread hay before it enters bale case. Have you attempted to change pin(key 6B) location in feeder fingers arm. When you get bales squared up twine lengths should even up with no need to attempt alteration of tying mechanism

Thanks Tx Jim.
currently the pin is on the second hole from the bottom, there is 5 holes so I will change it to the very top hole and see if it makes any difference? Would that be to much and cause other problems? If that will fix the problem we'll and good. If not, I will drive away from the windrow and see if the auger can correct the problem. Then possibly come back to the 4 hole and so on. Would this way of adjustments be advisable?
Cheers again.

 

[Tx Jim]

If it was my baler I'd move to next hole until problem corrected itself not skip holes in feeder forks.

 

[zzvyb6]

Moving to the farthest hole is a process for solving problems formally named "interval halving". You set as wide a change as possible and look at the results. Then you go 1/2 way depending on results. Better ? Keep going, Worse ? go the other way. Same process an optometrist uses to write a script for glasses. "Better or worse" they will always say. Small changes may confuse you because a change in the hay charge may produce bigger variation than the feeder fork delivery.

It's also possible that the plunger head has some crappola on it and is packing the flakes at an angle, and/or the bale compressors are plugged so that one side slips by while the short side is held. Feeder timing can be seen visually, too. Just kick in flakes from a broken bale and watch the hay distribution into the bale chamber.

 

[Tx Jim]

Small changes may confuse you because a change in the hay charge may produce bigger variation than the feeder fork delivery.

It's also possible that the plunger head has some crappola on it and is packing the flakes at an angle, and/or the bale compressors are plugged so that one side slips by while the short side is held. Feeder timing can be seen visually, too. Just kick in flakes from a broken bale and watch the hay distribution into the bale chamber.

IMHO if small changes in FF pin location confuses OP large changes in pin location will even be more confusing. I've never experienced PH getting material "stuck to it's face" & if that happened I would think one is attempting to bale at too high moisture content. BTW I have never baled a legume type hay.