JD 430 vs Kubota 723 loader

[sarkig]

I am trying to decide between the JD 4310 w/ 430 FEL or the Kubota L3130 w/ 723 FEL. In my interpretation of the specs, It appears the 723 can outlift the 430 by 500 pounds.

It this true? Does anyone have experience running the 3130 with the 723 FEL?

Regards,

Gregg

 

[_RaT_]

Greg, I have forgotten all the specifications of the 430 loader, I remember that for the most part though that the LA 723 had greater specifications in almost all the areas including some not so obvious areas like bucket rollback. I would not get to hung up on minor specification differences but if you get a chance to look at the two, note the size of the steel and overall build. I did and found out why the LA 723 also weighs quite a bit more. While I do have the LA 723, it is on a L3830 but it has the same specifications when attached to a L3130. The other thing that really works very well on the LA 723 is the ability to remore or replace the loader. I can remove it in seconds and replace it in about 2 minutes. I am sure the 430 also removes/replaces relatively easy. If I was set on a particular brand say the JD 4310, I would not let the 430 loader stop me from purchasing it.

 

[Dave___in___CT]

Hi...


Also test and compare the way the loader disconnects from the tractors... look at the "beffyness" of the components involved... and ease-of-use...

When a Deere dealer demoed' it on a 43xx with a hundred or so hours on it for me... I couldn't get it unlocked... then he had a tough time disengaging the "lock" mechanism... recall a long rod that comes up to the operator area... seemed kinda flimsy...

After the loader was unlocked but not removed... he couldn't get it re-connected/locked...

He got a technition to check it out...
Technition moderately ramed the loader bucket against a concrete barrior to get the "lock mechanism" into place... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Left me with a poor impression...

The Kubota's LA723 mechanism for detaching the loader... seem straight forward and substantial... no difficulty at all during the demo...


Dave...


This

 

[timb]

Comparing loader specs between mfgs. is tricky if you don't know for sure that you're comparing the same measurement criteria. Here are the 430 specs (when on a 4310 equipped with 7-14 front and 11.2-24 rear tires).

Max lift at the pivot pin: 101.4 in.
Clearance, bucket level/dumped: 93.5/78.3 in.
Digging Depth: 6.1 in.
Reach, at ground/max height: 57.5/27.6 in.
Max dump angle, at ground/full height: 130/45 degrees.
Max rollback angle, at ground/full height: 30/64 degrees.

Lift capacity to full height, at the pivot pin/front bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin) : 1,258/1,045 lb.

Lift capacity to 59 in. (1.5 meters), at the pivot pin/front bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin) : 1,943/1,687 lb.

Breakout force, at pivot/bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin): 3,299 / 2,417 lb-ft.

Rollback force at the bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin), at ground/59 in./full height: 2,988/3,349/2,155 lb-ft.

Hope that helps if you can find the full Kubota numbers and how/where they were measured. The LA723 numbers on the Kubota web site do look slightly better for the most part (not all), but they aren't quite as detailed there as to the measurement method/position.

 

[JDGreen4ever]

Gregg, The only way to really compare the two is to get in the seat and demo them. Deere tends to be conservative on their spec's to protect themselves. I have used both and was more impressed with the Deere. Try this little test I use, set the throttle at half open and fill the bucket (if you can without stalling the engine) then lift the load. Next try it at full throttle. I think that tells alot about the Hydraulics of the tractor as well as the loader. Another thing, just because a loader is heavier doesn't mean it is higher quality. Different grades of steel and manufacturing processes mean alot. Also, before you buy a tractor, go to the dealer's parts counter and ask them about emegency parts delivery. If the machine breaks down in 5 years and it takes two weeks to get the part, you won't be happy.

 

[_RaT_]

Max lift at the pivot pin: 101.4 in.
Kubota is 102.4"

Max dump angle, at ground/full height: 130/45 degrees. Kubota is 40 degrees

Max rollback angle, at ground/full height: 30/64 degrees. Kubota is 45 degrees

Lift capacity to full height, at the pivot pin/front bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin) : 1,258/1,045 lb.
Kubota is 1870lbs and 1400lbs.

Lift capacity to 59 in. (1.5 meters), at the pivot pin/front bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin) : 1,943/1,687 lb.

Breakout force, at pivot/bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin): 3,299 / 2,417 lb-ft.
Kubota is 2605 @ 500mm forward of pivot

Rollback force at the bucket edge (550mm from the pivot pin), at ground/59 in./full height: 2,988/3,349/2,155 lb-ft.


Those are the primary numbers to concern yourself with. I'm not sure what is relevent about 59" lift heights, but JD does give more information. As was mentioned, give them a drive. Look at the build quality, Kubota loaders are built in Georgia and JD's in Canada. Look at the way they attach. I put a gauge on my loader control valve and at about 1400 RPM have maximium operating pressure or about 2700 PSI. At that point your pretty much going to be able to do what the loader can do. The cyle times on the LA 723 are very quick, something I really like. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[_RaT_]

"Deere tends to be conservative on their spec's to protect themselves."

Protect themselves from what? /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[timb]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I'm not sure what is relevent about 59" lift heights, )</font>

Unless something says something otherwise - you have to give the mfg. the benefit of the doubt and assume that the 'max lift' listed for Kubota is to full height. But it's clear that all of these loaders can pick up a lot more than that low down, but may not make the full 'clean and jerk' to full height. If the published number isn't to full height, it's going to look a lot better. On the other hand, how many times do you have to lift a max load 9 feet in the air?

What would tell a lot about the 'real-world' usage of these loaders would be to overlay the lift / height chart curves. Deere publishes one, if one is available for the Kubota loaders, I think you'd get a better picture of the work the loader will perform throughout it's movement range.

Something else that I think would make for a better or worse user-relationship with the loader is leak down. Deere publishes a 'max. allowable' number (get's better the better/bigger the loader) but I think most actual production examples are a lot better than the 'allowable'. Be nice to know what the mfgs. try to 'target' as the average for each production unit.

 

[slowzuki]

All I can contribute is my friends JD 4310 (I think the # is right) with a JD30 loader has a poor quick attach. It has been tweaked by the dealer but still is as difficult as the qt loader on the old International 584 we use (1250 loader I think?)

The lift seems ok but his bucket is the small std one and is all torn up. The loader is lighter too, heavier built than the 5xx loader but light than the 723.

I will say it is a plus that it is built here in Canada! I didn't know that!

Ken

 

[Rick_Morrell]

RaT:

I know some manufacturers tend to understate their products' capabilities. This is more a way of guaranteeing the customers will get what they're paying for, regardless of manufacturing variation.


Rick

 

[beenthere]

That loader was out of adjustment if they had that much trouble with the 'rod' to unlatch the front plate that wraps around the weight bar. Normally, the FEL is lowered to the full extent of the rams which lifts the front wheels slightly, then the 'rod' is lifted from the seat and pushed forward. This releases the front plate. Then the loader is 'raised' which causes the frame to lower to the ground, and the rear frame to lift off the tractor mount. Takes about 20 sec. to do this when adjusted. Then the tractor is shut off, the hyd. lever moved to release any hyd. pressure, get off to remove the hyd hoses, and the loader is off. Reverse the process to put it back on. Its pretty impressive.

Best bet is to try them both, and decide from there. I suspect there isn't a great deal of difference between the two brands of FEL's and tractors.

 

[Dave___in___CT]

Hi...


Loader removal...

Yeah... maybe it wasn't adjusted right... or the Deere sales guy didn't know the right technique...

thanks...

Dave...

 

[OrangeGuy]

When I purchased my CUT and FEL, I checked out both the JD 430, and Kubota 513 and 723 FELs. I went with the Kubota 723 because it is a much heavier duty loader, has the skid steer quick attach (worth its weight in gold) and a much simpler loader quick attach (IMO). Additionally, the loader and bucket cylinder cycle times were much faster.

I felt that the JD 430 compared well to the Kubota 513 loader. The 723 just seemed to be a HD FEL. I have really worked my 723 hard and it has performed as advertised.

If for no other reason you should choose the 723 because of the skid steer quick attach. This is the standard of the industry. Changing attachments is a snap. In addition, there are so many attachments you can rent that will fit.

OrangeGuy

 

[_RaT_]

I am pretty sure you can get the QA for the 430 from ATI. I was also partial to the LA 723 over the 430. The mounting system for one just had far more beef. I also suspect that both loaders would for the most part serve someone quite well.

 

[Dave___in___CT]

Hi...


Yeahhhh... the loader's quick attach is the cat's meowww... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Makes it EZ to swap implements...


LA723 sidenote...
The generous rollback angle is great for really being able to fully load up the bucket...
...but...
Pay attention when the loader is raised up high...
...some of the contents can be dumped back at ya' ! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif


Dave...

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Quick Attach is available on the LA402 and above direct from Kubota. ATI also makes frames that will fit about any loader made, but they are expensive.

 

[rockyridgefarm]

Lotsa good points made.

BTW the trouble the Deere salesman had is easy to do, with so much equipment to know, they can easily forget that the front wheels need to be raised just slightly, and the loader will "pop" right off..." I just have the 430 and recently had the same problem removing it, and then DUH! drop the bucket down and it slides right off!

OK, ignorant question here...

With a midchassis machine are skid steer attachments really that useful? Seems that when you really get down to it, they really are a little much...

I have had excellant results with deere's quickattach bucket and accessories. Deere is now also offering a skid steer carrier.

Kubotas loaders are excellant. I notice thae new deere loader is referencing some new spec benchmark, that may be a sign of more standardized specs for somparisons...

 

[CTKOB]

I have a L3130 with 723 fel , I have found that if you can get it in the bucket it will lift it, maybe not all the way up but enough to move it around.

 

[sarkig]

You hit on another key point that I'm looking into. You stated the cycle times were better for the 723 loader. What tractor model is your loader on? I am looking at the 3130 but apparently the the same hydraulic capabilities are on the 3430 and 3830.

Thanks to you all for your insights!

sarkig

 

[OrangeGuy]

3430 HSTC

OrangeGuy