JD 770 No Start/Power

   / JD 770 No Start/Power #1  

fishmen222

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
29
Location
Carson, VA
Tractor
John Deere 755
Have a 1992 JD 770. 12.8v at battery, 12.7 at starter and all fuses are good (that I found). I have checked almost all connections...and nothing. I went to start it, the pump primed and glow indicator turned off as usual and then it all died. I doubt a safety switch because I should still have power to the instrument cluster. Checked battery ground resistance...all is normal. There is a black rectangular relay but I do not have a clue what it controls. On a side note, I have had to smack the starter the last few months to start, but shouldn't I still have power to the panel if the starter is bad? Relay? Starter? Ignition switch? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks folks and have a great Labor Day.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #2  
Check the voltage at the starter when you attempt to start. If voltage is still good when trying to crank, the battery connections are probably ok, but if you lose voltage, then there is a bad connection somewhere or a cable may be bad. There is a fusible link at the starter that could be bad.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #3  
This may sound like a silly suggestion, but try removing the existing battery and jumping from your car or truck battery to the battery cables on the tractor (or else replace the existing battery with a known good battery). Don't just jump to the existing battery; take the existing battery out of the circuit.

I had a similar experience, and all of the symptoms pointed to something other than the battery. I even had a charger with 50 amp "Engine Start" connected to the old battery. When I removed the old battery and jumped from my truck battery it started. Another JD owner with a similar machine told me he had a similar experience.

When you figure it out, please post the results so future readers can benefit from your experience.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #4  
Have someone check the voltage as you try to start the tractor. just cause you see 12.7 at rest doesnt mean it has the oomph to turn over the diesel under load.

My old 870 did this to me, and i found that after i turned the key, i got under 6 volts at the starter. Even though the lights would work ... though dim.

A new battery solver my problem
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #5  
The suggestions by jd110 and grsthegreat are excellent suggestions, and what I tried in my case, but you may not see any voltage at the starter when you try to crank. That would suggest a safety switch or something else, but not the battery. As I posted above, try eliminating the existing battery and using a known good battery.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #6  
Put your VOM on the battery posts at the cable connections and see what reading you get while turning the key to crank.
If voltage drops below 12 volts but it won't crank over you probably have a dead cell or battery is possibly toast.
Don't jump to conclusions about part replacement unless you've confirmed each step of the way. Sounds like starter/solenoid could be problematic too, but first rule out connection issues, ground cable from battery to frame, battery under load, specific gravity across battery cells, etc. How old is battery? How many hours on tractor?
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Thanks guys. I will bypass the battery tomorrow. I was leaning towards the battery and/or cables, but all were replaced last year. What gets me, is shouldn't I at least have power to the panel with 12.7 at the starter? I have had weak batteries/connections before and it simply would not start...not a zero power situation like I have. I have absolutely no power to anything...dead as a doornail, yet the battery seems fine. Thanks again!
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power
  • Thread Starter
#8  
OK now. At a loss as I have not seen this before. Took the battery and cables out of one of the boats...started perfect and seconds later shut down as before. No dash, pump..anything. Fusible links and fuses are fine. No noted rodent damage. Cannot help but think that the need to smack the starter the last year to start is not related. I know solenoids stick, but would they cause a total power outage? Thanks again folks!
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #9  
To solve this you need to keep it simple and do one test at a time and assume nothing as you eliminate possible causes of the problem(s).
Do as already asked and put your meter at the battery and read what it does when the engine cranks, if you can get it to crank. 12.7V or whatever, means nothing until you put a load on the battery and then you get a reading of what the voltage drop is while cranking or when running or both.
Let's say you have a problem with your starter and or solenoid at the starter for illustration purposes. Once you crank the engine, with amps, (current) flowing from the battery, passing to the starter solenoid through the ignition switch to the energizing wire on the solenoid a circuit is completed. That is the start circuit initiated by turning the key at the ignition circuit.
By seeing what voltage drop is created by turning the key and reading the meter this will tell you if the battery has enough voltage to turn over the starter, or not. Your starter may not be bad, but the solenoid may be weak, or you may have worn brushes inside the starter, or whatever of a list of possible problems.
Ideally you would and certainly can remove your existing battery and have it load tested and check the specific gravity and electrolyte level of each cell in it to determine what it's condition is OUTSIDE of the tractor. If it fails any of the above mentioned tests it is time for a new battery. This may end up being the case- BUT it may not be your only problem.
Let's say the battery is toast. Get another one and install it and then continue to diagnose and rule out other problems like your starter/solenoid, etc.
Do not worry about 12.7 or whatever at the starter. Do worry about what the battery can put out under load. Post back results of above mentioned tests.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #10  
Could also be your ignition switch.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power
  • Thread Starter
#11  
Thank you all very much for your knowledge, but I fear this is a little different. I do not claim to be Mr. Goodwrench, but have been turning wrenches for three decades. I cannot load test on the tractor as I have no power. The battery has been load tested elsewhere and all is fine. Trading out batteries and cables did not help...same situation. How do I start diagnostics of where the open loop is? Removed all panels today and found no obvious damage. As stated before, all links and fuses intact. I am starting to lean towards the ignition switch, but cannot dismiss the starter. I have schematics, but where does the dash receive power from in the "on" position? Is it the secondary wire coming off the positive side of the starter? Thanks again folks for all your help!
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #12  
if the engine started with new battery, but then stalled out, i cant see how it would be the starter. maybe it is the ignition switch then.

Back in the good old days i used to know how to hot wire anything...those days are long gone.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #13  
fishmen222,
jd 110 first suggested you measure the voltage while cranking, did you do this and what was the result? (NEVER ignore this poster as he always gives you good advise)
next, if the battery voltage remains high, continue with starter switch engaged then
measure the voltage from ground terminal on battery to battery cable terminal on starter solenoid, what is the result?
Next measure the voltage from the ground terminal on battery to the solenoid s terminal what is the result?
Next measure the voltage from the ground terminal on battery to the starter terminal on the solenoid, what is the result?

Without a method to the madness it is difficult to help you determine where the problem is this could all be done in less than a minute and would greatly help the troubleshooting process.
 
Last edited:
   / JD 770 No Start/Power
  • Thread Starter
#14  
Sir, that is just it. I have not ignored anyone. I have had juice for all of three seconds and would have performed a load test if I actually believed it would have started at that moment. Unless I am missing something (and could well be), I cannot check load unless I am able to provide a load to test. I have power to nothing. Please correct me if wrong. Thanks again!
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #15  
Sir, that is just it. I have not ignored anyone. I have had juice for all of three seconds and would have performed a load test if I actually believed it would have started at that moment. Unless I am missing something (and could well be), I cannot check load unless I am able to provide a load to test. I have power to nothing. Please correct me if wrong. Thanks again!

You're not wrong about not being able to do a load test unless you can get her running , which is why I mentioned IF you can get it to crank. And yes, the smaller wire on the positive side of the starter solenoid will likely be your 'hot' wire, which should put 12+ volts to the solenoid when you turn the ignition switch to the crank position.
No one is questioning your knowledge- we're just doing our best to help point you in the right direction.
So now we know you have a good battery and cables. So put one side of you meter at the wire on the solenoid and one at the other end on the ignition switch and see if it reads any voltage when turning the key to crank.
Post back results. One step at a time. What is somewhat baffling is why you were able to get her started and then she immediately dies. We don't yet know if that symptom is electrical or fuel, do we?
Couple of other quick questions: what is the black relay you referenced in the first post? Does it have a number you can reference? Do you have a JD service manual or access to wiring diagrams?
Can you post a couple of pics of the starter/solenoid wires?
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #16  
Sir, that is just it. I have not ignored anyone. I have had juice for all of three seconds and would have performed a load test if I actually believed it would have started at that moment. Unless I am missing something (and could well be), I cannot check load unless I am able to provide a load to test. I have power to nothing. Please correct me if wrong. Thanks again!


So you are saying you have no battery voltage now? Change the battery if that is the case. Then proceed with the measurements. Who says you don't have a load? We haven't checked continuity through the starter circuit yet.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #17  
fishman222
I think everyone would like to help you solve this starting problem, just understand that none of us are physically there. We would need you to run through a trouble shooting method so that we have a logical step by step process. Something else to keep in mind some of the Deere tractors had an additional relay to increase the voltage (or reduce the voltage drop) while cranking. Haven't determined if your tractor has this yet. Does your tractor have a 12v solenoid for fuel shut down? Loosing power to it will shut down the tractor when running. At any rate knowing the answers in a step by step procedure will make this easy.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #18  
This may sound like a silly suggestion, but try removing the existing battery and jumping from your car or truck battery to the battery cables on the tractor (or else replace the existing battery with a known good battery). Don't just jump to the existing battery; take the existing battery out of the circuit.

I had a similar experience, and all of the symptoms pointed to something other than the battery. I even had a charger with 50 amp "Engine Start" connected to the old battery. When I removed the old battery and jumped from my truck battery it started. Another JD owner with a similar machine told me he had a similar experience.

When you figure it out, please post the results so future readers can benefit from your experience.

FWIW, jumping through a dead battery, even with the 50 amp start boost won't work if the battery has a dead cell. And though one can jump to just the cables of the dead vehicle/tractor it's better to replace a questionable/dead battery first, and then see if it will start.

This situation looks like a fuel shutoff may be kicking in right after the tractor starts, but there are some issues that need to be resolved before that can be determined for certain. One of them is whether the ignition/start circuits are able to do their job. We are waiting for more info from the OP at the moment.
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #19  
It's sound more like an electrical problem. He say's that all power at the instrument panel goes out. This is why I mention a possible bad ignition switch. Good luck Fishmen and keep us up dated. :thumbsup:
 
   / JD 770 No Start/Power #20  
fishman222,
Did you get this fixed? You can look at the wiring below and research Deere parts for more information.
 

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