JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem

   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem #1  
Joined
Nov 26, 2009
Messages
34
Location
Larkspur, Colorado
Tractor
John Deere 4520 CUT
I just purchased a 2008 4520 (eHydro) with 400CX loader. Overall, I'm very pleased - the 4520 is a big step up from my last tractor (Branson 2910i). I have run into a hiccup though. I can't get the cruise control to engage consistently. I don't have the automotive cruise control option. I have verified that the parking brake is not set, and that I'm not riding the brake pedals unintentionally. I see an "Error 5" code (Brake and Cruise Set/Decel Switch). Maybe the brake linkage is too tight or something is out of adjustment? Has anyone else run into this problem? The tractor is under warranty so I'll call the dealer if I can't fix it, but I'd like to take care of it myself if possible.
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem #2  
I've got a 4520 cab. I looked in the service manual, and the three causes of this error are Operator, Failed brake switch/wiring or Failed Cruse control switch/wiring. I think as follows: The JD tech, using a device called the Service ADVISOR, looks at the CAN bus traffic to see that state of the brake and cruise control switch.

Since it's new and under warranty, I think it would be best to let the dealer deal with it. The good news is it's easy for the dealer to diagnose the problem and that's half the battle.

Background information that you may already know: The tractor has 3 controllers (computers) on it: The engine, transmission, and display. They are connected with a serial buss called the CAN bus. This is also used in a lot of cars. Serial just means the buss has 2 wires and data is sent serially, much like an Ethernet cable on a computer. The Service ADVISOR can look at the CAN bus and see all these little packets of data go by as things happen. As such, it can see if the sensors for the break peddle are on or off, and can see what the cruise control switch is set for. When these sensors change, packets will be send out on the bus with their current state. If there is a wiring or switch/sensor problem (such as the brake sensor has fail and shows the break on all the time) what you see from a "controllers on the bus" perspective is that fact- it looks like the brake pedal is always pressed. What the JD guy can do is press the pedal and see if the correct state of the pedal is shown by packets sent out over the CAN bus.
Of course if there's a problem, it still has to be tracked down the old fashion way. But this diagnostic procedure will at least get you focused in on a very specific part of the tractor. The service manual then tells you for the sensors what voltages to look for on the pins.
If you were out of warranty, you could either pay the dealer or just look carefully at the wiring and switches/sensors. You could measure voltages on pins to see if they were changing correctly.
Fixing this without the service manual will be a lot of shooting in the dark and guessing what you should see on various pins of the wiring harness.

So let the warranty do it's thing, and I hope this information helps. Gotta love the service manual- get'cha one.

Pete
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem
  • Thread Starter
#3  
Thanks for the advice - I'll definitely get a service manual. I took possession of the tractor yesterday, so I spent this morning reconfiguring the rear tires (for wider stance), and then making up jobs to do so I could get used to the hydro transmission, loader, etc. I really like the eHydro tranny - makes loader work much faster than with a shuttle shift.
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem #4  
Sure makes me glad my tractor doesn't have a computer.
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem #5  
As you might guess, I think the plusses of the computers outweigh the minuses. On a non-computer tractor when things don't work you have to think through all the mechanisms that would cause the tractor to stop and then look at the various switches and sensors to see which one was bad. You'd look at the service manual and wiring diagram and figure out what to test.
The same procedures work on a computer tractor but you also have the option of being able to see these sensors electronically. I just had the fuel shut off solenoid go in my Kubota B21. Between the service manual and great TBN help got it going. A computer tractor that could look at the solenoid and see if it was open or shorted to ground could have given me an error code that would have saved time. Better still it could have a bigger display and just tell me without some silly error code.

I am slightly annoyed on my JD4520 that they skimped on the user display. A small 64 x 128 dot graphics display is cheap. That would have let them say what was wrong instead of just an error number. So when a light bulb goes out (yes, computer tractors can sense that) it could tell you what the problem was. This would also let you figure out if you should continue working or if the error was serious enough to stop the work.
In a similar light, Deere should print all of the error codes in the user manual. It's annoying enough that the manual isn't free (in electronic form where there is no cost to produce it). If they did this as a trick to get people to buy the manual, well, surely the founders of the company would be spinning at 2600 RPM in their grave at such tactics.

Modern cars are a good analogy here. I know lots of people don't like the computers in them, but the ability to plug in a diagnostic plug and have some test equipment tell you what's wrong can often save time and trouble. It's a bad reality of modern life that if something is done to save time when servicing equipment, the end user will not see a lower cost, the dealer just gets more profit. Only the US with it's warped financial sector could call this improving productivity. But in the long run quicker and more accurate diagnosing is a win for everyone.

The only down side I see to computers is something no one will know until 15-20 years from now. Many of the parts on the circuit board will not be available in 15 years, so making exact replacements will not be possible. But it is quite posable to make a new board that has the same connectors and runs the same packet protocols on the CAN bus. By analogy, if you get a new computer you can still use the web because the data protocols don't change. If Deere wishes to keep it's reputation of having parts around for older tractors, they will figure this out. If they hire too many managers from the financial sector they will have an "it's out of warranty and not our problem, every computer failure is an opportunity to sell a new tractor" mindset and the company will go away. Having replacement controllers available for computer tractors is _not_ a technical problem, it's a managerial one.

A fun exercise for a future post is to look at all the signals going in and out of a controller- they are all pretty universal to all tractors. But I've gone on enough. Dcyrilc, it is at least a good thing that at this point in time the buyer can choose so to each their own. Just like in cars, I can't see the computers going away because of their emission control benefits, user features, and servicing benefits. There is definitely a right way and wrong way to computer control stuff as the auto industry took 20 years to figure out. The automotive industry has also advanced the technology of making electronics that work in the harsh environments that cars and tractors are in. Hopefully the tractor crowd can pick up on the automotive sectors learning curve without repeating the errors.

Pete
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem #6  
Pete,
Well said and I hope Deere is listening, this can be either a good thing or bad thing and for the most part is dependent on how Deere handles this.


Cyril, I have been a fan of the 2240 and remember when the 2040 thru 2640 first came out, I wanted one real bad at the time. Comparing the new 4520 to a 2240 I think they both have some advantages, but both were intended to be nimble multi-use tractors. The 4520 has taken this intent a step farther though, as should be expected of a later model tractor. The 2240 with a cat 2 hitch is one of the better tractor designs IMHO.
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Just a quick update - after disconnecting/reconnecting the brake sensor switch, the cruise control functions as expected. Anyways, all's well that ends well. The tractor was telling me what the problem was - I just needed to listen ;)
 
   / JD4520 EHydro Cruise Control Problem #8  
Good Deal! Now you keep doing stuff with your tractor while you're waiting for the service manual to show up.
BTW, I ordered mine on line, they send you a CD. Then I copied the CD to my computer (and thus it made it's way to the back-up drive). I also got the parts catalog file. I think that will be less useful until some day when I'm trying to figure out how to get something apart and then it will be useful with all the exploded parts diagrams.

And if Deere is listening, the electronic format is good, hire some young pup than can line pieces of the manual together. So when the manual says "See section on YYY", you can click on it and go to that section.

Pete
 

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