John Deere 1050 Engine Opinion

[kleinhhl]

Hello all,

I have a John Deere 1050 which I am trying to diagnose coolant loss. Sorry for the long post.

After operating at temperature and letting the tractor cool down, the coolant overflow bottle loses about 2" worth of coolant every time. In other words, it's about 2" lower than before running it to temperature and letting it cool down, after the coolant has expanded into the coolant bottle when hot and retracted into the radiator when cooled.

At around 2500 hours, I noticed white smoke from the stack, coolant loss from the overflow bottle and bubbles in the coolant overflow and white sludge from the blow-by tube bottle when running. I tested the cooling system with my Stant coolant tester and it wouldn't hold pressure. I did notice that the radiator had a leak and several hoses had leaks so I replaced all that with new. When I replaced the thermostat, the old one was broken in the bypass/open position.

That left the bubbles in the overflow bottle and the white smoke when running. I figured it was the head gasket at this point so I put a new one on and torqued the head studs at the low end of the spec. The valve cover had white sludge on the inside top when I took it off. For the record, all gaskets and o-rings that I've replaced have been baked on and past their usefulness. I had already done a new crankshaft seal on the front of the engine previously that was baked on...

After the new head gasket, I ran the engine with new oil for about 10 hours and there was still coolant loss and white sludge from the blow-by tube but not as much. I re-torqued the head studs to the high end of the spec. and took an oil sample to send off to Blackstone Labs (see attached report). They reported 1.8% of the sample was water and 0.1% was antifreeze. There was also elevated iron, potassium, aluminum and sodium levels which I can only assume is ring or bearing material???

I have finally just ran a pressure test of the coolant system again with the Stant coolant tester and pressure drops by 3 psi from 14 psi over a period of about 3 minutes. I also ran the tractor with the Stant tester connected and the pressure rose pretty steadily and slowly as the tractor warmed up. There was no wild jumping from the Stant coolant tester needle indicating major pressure from combustion getting into the cooling system. There are no bubbles in the coolant overflow tank anymore either when running and warmed up at idle or 1500 RPMs or 2000 RPMs.

My next thought is maybe the cylinder sleeve o-rings are leaking. I don't think there is a crack in the block or head although that could be a possibility.

It would be $50 in parts to replace the cylinder sleeve o-rings only but obviously that would entail a lot more work that may be not worth it. I would also need a cylinder sleeve puller tool which seems to start at $450 on eBay for a Chinese knock-off.

If I rebuilt the engine with new pistons and rings, I would need to put new sleeves in as well (all from Hoye Tractor) and a new head gasket because the original parts are no longer available at a decent price from John Deere. That would be $1,000 in parts plus the cylinder sleeve puller tool.

Any thoughts or opinions? Am I missing anything? Don't want to spend the money unnecessarily...

Thanks for any responses!

 

[TimberHole]

These 50 series tractors with the 3 cylinder Yanmar's have a reputation for cracking heads. I have recently gone thru a couple of 3T90J engines out of JD 950's. I'll be happy to share what I have learned. The sleeve puller isn't a big deal to make. If you pull the crank you will also need special pullers for the front and rear main bearings. Send me a message with a phone number if you would like to discuss. I'll share what I can here but it would take several pages of writing to share it all.

 

[TimberHole]

Oh, and just out of curiousity who's head gasket did you use? I have noticed a big difference in the quality of the gaskets I have ordered.

 

[kleinhhl]

Okay, thanks for the replies... one thing I hadn't done yet was have the head checked over for cracks. When I had it off, I just scraped the old gasket material off and put it back on. Would a magnaflux test be the appropriate test for cracks in this head?

The head gasket set I bought came from dieseltractorparts.com and it was P/N 121422-99040 which I can't seem to find on their site anymore. That part number appears to be a Yanmar part number and the packaging said Yanmar and had Japanese writing on it. It was listed and sold as the head gasket set for John Deere 1050's with S/N's newer than 089473...

 

[TimberHole]

The first tractor I repaired had a similar issue and the previous owner had already done the head gasket. I assumed the tractor had a larger issue. I took the head to the shop and after looking at it the old guy said I had a rare head.......one that wasn't cracked!

Did any of your 8 hold down studs unscrew from he block? I believe the previous repairman reinstalled at least one stud with the nut more or less seized to the stud. While we've all done that on less significant connections that technique most likely won't result in the correct tension in the stud. It didn't in this case and their new head gasket leaked almost immediately.

I think they start with a pressure test on the head and magniflux if it fails the pressure test but I'm not 100% sure.

If you find an old school shop they can repair many of these heads.

 

[kleinhhl]

It's interesting that you mention the head studs... I was unable to get two of them unthreaded from the block. The rest all came out and when I re-installed them, I oiled them per the JD 1050 tech manual. The other two were not oiled on the block side obviously. This fact has been at the back of my mind for a while but I didn't know if it would cause the head gasket to leak. It's worth a shot to try to get them loose, chase the threads and re-install...

Sounds like between checking the head for cracks and doing the head studs right, that may be my first step...

Thanks again!

 

[TimberHole]

I would give serious thought to a compression check prior to pulling the head. It will require pulling the injectors. I can walk you thru that if you decide to pull them. I'm assuming they'll be stuck but maybe the've already been out in recent years.

I wouldn't be concerned with the two studs that wouldn't come out. I assume you installed all 6 remaining studs prior to installing the head. Bottom line, when you torque you want the nut turning on the stud and not the stud turning in the block. If that was the case I would assume the tension is correct.

 

[mike48130]

Can you pull the valve cover and oil pan and do the coolant pressure test again? Maybe you could actually see the leak to tell you which way you need to go.

 

[disney]

Can you pull the valve cover and oil pan and do the coolant pressure test again? Maybe you could actually see the leak to tell you which way you need to go.

could he pull the valve cover and pressurize the cooling system, first, only pulling the pan if he experiences loss, and cant find source? Also please make sure you pressure tester does not leak.

 

[kleinhhl]

All good suggestions... I will try the coolant pressure test with the valve cover off and report back.

Thanks all...

 

[kleinhhl]

Just wanted to check in in case anyone is facing the same problems with their tractor and is following this thread.

I haven't been able to do much work on the tractor due to the cold weather in Virginia and the holidays.

Tonight, I went down to look things over and stuck my finger in the neck of the radiator and found it covered in oil.

My next steps are to get the head checked out and possibly pull the liners to replace the o-rings. The liner puller is pricey but it'll have to be done.

 

[pmsmechanic]

You can make your own liner puller easy enough. You need something in the bottom that supports the cylinder and yet clears the block when you are pulling liners. A piece of ready rod and a bridge on top that clears the liners and you are in business. Just reverse to install. Pretty paraphrased but you should get the picture. If not ask questions.

 

[kleinhhl]

Quick update... I was able to work on the tractor today since it was 58F here in Virginia. It was 11F when I woke up this morning!

Anyway, I pulled the oil pan and did a pressure test on the coolant system. It was pretty obvious that coolant was leaking from either a crack in something or the sleeve o-rings from at least one and maybe all three cylinders.

I also bought a sleeve puller off of a guy on eBay. He custom machined a puck to fit the sleeve. It was much cheaper than the OTC tool or other sleeve pullers available. I'll post a picture when I can.

Just need to wait for my 3/8" and 1/2" torque wrenches to come back from Snap-on before I tear into the engine. I'm thinking of just replacing the sleeve o-rings at this point and doing a visual inspection of the sleeves and pistons / rings before going crazy and rebuilding the engine completely.

 

[TimberHole]

I replaced the seals on my first 950. Upper and lower seals carry different part numbers and are different colors (assume different types of materials) yet some aftermarket guys sell the same seal for both locations. I honed my sleeves and installed new rings. I returned a set of aftermarket rings and bought them from Deere. Not much extra money and the rings were exact matches, including markings, to the originals. I haven't found an aftermarket head gasket that is any good. I bought one aftermarket that was only $20.00 less than the expensive Deere gasket and it arrived all beat up from the manufacturing process and 7 out of 8 holes were too small to go over the studs. Buyer beware is my advice.

Are you going to have the head serviced while it's off?

 

[kleinhhl]

I did buy the John Deere sleeve o-rings and got both colors for each cylinder sleeve. I agree on the aftermarket parts being sub-par in some cases. When I did the head gasket, the one I bought came with Japanese writing and Yanmar printed on the package. It was represented by the retailer to be the equivalent Yanmar part for the John Deere 1050 later S/N break for the 3T90J-T. I did re-torque the head studs after operating for a few hours. I will see what the state of it is when I do the sleeve o-rings. If I have to buy a new head gasket again, I will buy the John Deere part.

I'm waiting for my Snap-on torque wrenches (QJFR275E 3/8" and QJR3250 1/2") to come back from the Snap-on repair facility. I sent them in to get them repaired, if needed, and calibrated. I had bought them both from eBay. Can't say enough about Snap-on's customer service. It was ~$63 each to get them gone over.

I like the idea of doing the rings while the pistons are out. I will buy them from John Deere too. There was some blow-by but nothing I felt was out of ordinary although I might as well replace them while the pistons are out.

Do you have any advice on proper technique for honing the sleeves? Which hone did you buy or are they pretty much all the same? I've never done that before. Did you use the John Deere lubricant soap (JD P/N: AR54749) on the sleeve o-rings when you put them back in? Also, I've had advice to put the liners in the freezer prior to installation. Did you do this?

I will take the head to a good shop near me to have it checked out for cracks and see whether they recommend valve work, etc.

Also, here's a video of the leaking coolant: John Deere 1050 Leaking Coolant into Oil Pan - YouTube

 

[TimberHole]

I borrowed a ball hone but you'll need one of the correct diameter. I'm not a big fan of the 3 stone hones. Read up a bit on honing and I think the manual even states the cross hatching should be at a 45 degree angle. In other words you need to turn it fairly slowly while traveling thru the liner at a fairly rapid rate to achieve the correct cross hatch.

You won't need to freeze the liners and in my opinion it would be counter productive as it would make the o rings harder. It won't take but one good whack on a wood block to get past the orings and seat the liners. They go in and out without much fanfare. I did buy an aftermarket kit for my second engine and it was tough to get the liners past the o rings. I think they were a little too thick. I did buy the soap. If it's legal to ship I'll send you some as I have enough for two lifetimes.

I hate to say it but I'll be surprised if your cylinder bores meet specs with 2500 hours. My first engine had 1200 hours and the liner bores mic'd good. The second had 2800 and they were too worn and a little out of round. For $722.00 you can get an overhaul kit with liners, rings, pistons and pins and gaskets. Bearings not included. The kit isn't perfect and I didn't use the head gasket or front and rear seal. Just too much work if they don't seal.

As for the Snap On wrenches......can't do any better than that. I only have a few Snap On tools but their the ones I reach for first!

 

[TimberHole]

Forgot to mention one thing.......you may find pitting on the liners just above the bottom o ring. This could also be the deciding factor in whether you decide to reuse the liners. Sorry, don't mean to be discouraging, but I did have some pitting on both tractors. The pitting nearly caused the first liners to reject.

Here's a pic of the second machine getting close to done.



Not to derail your thread but do you have a backhoe on your machine?

 

[kleinhhl]

Thanks again for the advice. I will inspect the sleeves and take measurements when I start to take the engine apart. I think you are right about there being pitting and excessive wear at 2500 hours. It will be a learning experience and one that will be satisfying once everything is buttoned back up.

I don't have a backhoe for this tractor. I have a Woods LC108 loader and bucket, a 3PH round bale spear, a chain drag harrow and a small snow plow mated to a quick-attach plate.

We have a horse and donkey that generate a surprising amount of manure and eat a surprising amount of hay and the 1050 handles all those chores easily. It is a 4WD as well which has gotten me out of a few sketchy situations. We try to keep the four legged beasts out as much as possible even in the winter so we feed round bales to them. The only time they come in is when it rains hard or snows because the donkey doesn't like the wet.

A guy up the road from me has a 950 with a rear mounted log splitter that looks pretty slick. I would like to add one of those, a rear blade, grapple and bush hog down the road. I also want to add a dedicated loader control valve with 3rd function and free up the rear remotes.

Regarding the rear mounted backhoe, I have been contemplating that route or a used mini excavator. I know a mini excavator would be much pricier but I think it would be more flexible than a backhoe. My barn has a dirt floor and needs extensive grading... I am going to rent a mini excavator from Sunbelt to see how they operate.

By the way, your restoration of the 950 in that pictures looks very nice. I'm jealous... mine would need a lot of work to get to that point.

 

[TimberHole]

If you pursue that dedicated valve I'd sure be interested in that. I'm not sure if I'm smart enough to figure that one out but would love to have a thumb for handling brush. I also need to sort out the log splitter as I have timber and want to start putting up some wood. I'm debating whether to keep both of my 950's. I shouldn't but I sure hate to sell either, especially after going thru the engines!

It's not really my style but I have thought that maybe the way to repair these old tractors is to only fix what's wrong. On yours that would mean seals, rod bolts and head gasket. Even if it smoked a little it would probably run a long time. Something to think about.

 

[kleinhhl]

Just a quick update on my JD 1050 with engine problems. There was a break in the cold rainy weather and I was able to pull the head this weekend with my Dad. I didn't get any pictures before I dropped the head off at the machine shop but it looks like it is cracked between the exhaust and intake valves in all three cylinders. I won't know until the machine shop calls later this week. They are going to magnaflux the head. They couldn't do a pressure test because they don't have a fixture and plates to seal the head.

There was coolant in cylinder 2 and some white particles that I'm guessing is unburnt fuel / coolant.

If the head is indeed cracked and it is not repairable, it looks like a $700 - $1000 bill to get a new or remanufactured 3T90T-J head.

I also pulled the injectors and will have them tested and cleaned. I had to use a slide hammer with a special adapter from Hoye Tractor to get them out of the head.