Just about ready to pull the trigger on the new 425...

[airbiscuit]

So based on the quote you got airbisquit they have available 127K a year for each employee. Figure the averag on the HIGH side is 65 per employee that is 3.5mil of the 7 mil for labor. I am sure the materials cost of a PT is about 50% of the overall cost (my PT, 6K engine, 8K wheel motors, 6K pumps, 5K on parts and steel so the remainder of the sale is labor andprofit or 10K. I bet the PT goes together quick. 5 days from weld to release if one person was doing it?

If we go your math, and all they build is Powertracs, then they build 300-350 per year.

 

[Impulse]

I was there about a year ago. They told me they sell 800-850 or so PT-425 units / year (of I remember correctly). I'll also throw on that I love mine and have never once had a drop of buyer's remorse.

 

[scotts562]

My 425 has 2575 hours of hard use on it. Not sure how the hours are so low since this was the only machine for my landscaping company from 2005 to 2015.

My pump is currently in the hydraulic shop being repaired. Mine is Bondioli pump and by the time they get it repaired I will be able to tell you the model number and rebuild cost at my local shop. The only information I could get on it from Power Trac is the brand. It sounds like they have used a couple of different pumps in these machines over the years, so they genuinely may not know the pump model. Power Trac has given me zero resistance about having this pump re-built locally. If I were closer to their factory, I would have had them rebuild it (quoted at $ 1,500).

Once I get everything put back together, I will have a magnet on the filter and possible one in the tank. The shop says my pump is scored pretty bad from debris running through it. I found dried up, non-metallic sealant chunks (from the hydraulic tank cover) and very fine, dust-like metal in the hydraulic tank. The magnets will catch the fine metal debris.

I purchase as many parts locally as possible. I know the wheel motors are not proprietary. My local supplier called White hydraulics to ensure this before they would sell me a wheel motor. I highly doubt many/any of the hydraulic components are proprietary because there is too much variation from one year's machine to the next.

The recurring problems I have with my machine are the Robin engine (replaced 3 times) and leaky wheel motor (mostly the front right wheel). The Robin engine is getting replaced with a Kohler. Still trying to figure out the wheel motors. In my experience, re-building the wheel motors is a waste of time. New is better but they cost $450 - $600 each depending on vendor.

As I said above, I am currently re-building my machine. It looks like I will have about $ 5,000 into parts and outside shop repairs. Much of the work I will do myself. I am not a mechanic by any means, but feel pretty comfortable with taking the. For this amount of money I will have a brand new engine, re-built hydraulic pump, re-built hydraulic cylinders (all 6 of them), re-built lift/tilt manifold, one new wheel motor, new throttle and choke cables, and a few other small items. The same $ 5,000 will not get me very far on my Bobcat or most of the other big brand name machines.

In short, despite the repairs and frustrations I have had on my machine, I would not hesitate to buy another Power Trac.

 

[marrt]

I agree...$5000 on real commercial machinery repair/rebuild is nothing. This is the main reason I haven't bought a Bobcat excavator. Fantastic machine but too expensive for my non-commercial use. Better to just rent.

The PT wheel motors are a known commodity. Search the forum for details. The displacement and style varies slightly depending on the year of your unit (e.g., 12.5 cu. in. vs 14 cu. in. if memory serves). If you really can't find anything, post back and we can help.

As to your pump wear, that sounds abnormal to me for a PT with that many hours...in that you got MANY more hours than I'd expect. PT considers these pumps a wear item. I think I read somewhere that a pump should last about 4000 hours on average in optimum conditions. That's not what we should expect. I've had pumps repairs at <700 hours and <500 hours on different machines. My neighbor had his pump repaired at about 1000 hours but it was weak for a long time prior. The PT filtration setup is far from optimal. Ideally, it would have multiple filters in the hydraulic circuit...like Kubota uses in many of their machines. For example, the whole pump/wheel motor circuit is closed and NEVER filtered. In theory, the oil is gradually replaced by the charge pump over time but this varies by machine type (e.g., 425 has no dedicated wheel motor case drain; 1845 does).

In any case, I've stopped worrying about it. Everything's a compromise. If the filtration was better on the suction side, cavitation potential would be even higher on cold start ups. The overall machine design is awesome. So, I now consider the cost of a pump rebuild as "normal" so it doesn't hurt so much. Kinda like my wife's hairdresser bill.

Regarding the engine, the Robin is terrible in my opinion. The old Kohler's were great and I still have some on other equipment. They start good and seem more tolerant of high operating temps. Personally, this is the one area where I think the benefits of synthetic oil is justified....air cooled engines.

Good luck with the rebuild and try to take some pictures. I know it's difficult to take pictures when working on machinery ("I just want to get it done"). But we all like pictures. I'm about to get started again with the rebuild of my 425. I just ordered a brand new BP pump all the way from Italy as a spare ($1900). I have a rebuilt pump I'll throw in for now. I'm using a Subaru (i.e., Generac) 35 HP engine. I'm also using higher capacity wheel motors for more torque. I can't stay on the PT at full speed on my property anyway so I'll trade speed for torque (I might not if using the machine commercially where time is money). Personally, I like to see the wheels spin when pushing into a pile of dirt with the bucket.

 

[scotts562]

You are making me feel better about a pump repair at 2600 hours. The hydraulic shop thought that number of hours at the lower end of expected performance.

Where did you get your new BP pump and what model is it? For $1900 I may have been better of buying new. Power Trac quoted me ~ $2600 for a new pump.

I have another tread about 425 engine alternatives, check it out. Power Trac now offers a conversion kit to replace the Robin with a Kohler CH 730. There are pictures of the kit. Subaru has discontinued production of the Robin 25 hp, don't know about your 35 hp.