Kitchen/Dining Room Layout

[jrdepew]

Thanks in advance if you read this whole novel and try to help me :thumbsup:

I am in the design stage of remodeling our kitchen/dining room area. The room is approximately 12' x 15' and needs to function as a kitchen and dining area. The house is a 2 bedroom, so we need to be able to sit 3-4 people comfortably. Currently the kitchen layout is L shaped, with the oven all the way in the left upper corner, dishwasher right next to it, sink to the right of that with the window in front of it, then some cabinets and a full lazy susan corner cabinet to turn the corner. There is a cabinet of drawers, then the fridge, then a pantry cabinet at the end. This layout works okay, but we severely lack counter space...and my GF and I both actively cook, so it gets tight and hectic. I also am not a fan of the oven/range being tucked in a corner...no landing space on the left at all and you feel cramped when working on the range.

We current have a kitchen table pushed against the wall at the bottom of the layout. The other side of this wall is the staircase going down to the basement. Unfortunately, we cannot find another place to put our dining table without sacrificing a large portion of our living room.

On the left hand side of the drawing are two windows that hang to almost exactly counter height.

I have been playing with layouts a lot, and I would like to create a U-shaped kitchen, where the oven would be on the wall where the windows currently are. This creates an issue of a range in front of a window, and makes ventilation hard. I have played with the idea of removing the window that the range would sit against so I can have a proper hood (near the middle of the room on the left hand wall). We would still have 2 windows in the kitchen then (one on the left wall, one over the sink), but the view out the windows on the left wall is very nice and we are always watching birds/deer, etc out of them. So, I am not in love with the idea of removing the one window.

My proposed layout is (starting at bottom left of U and going clockwise), 12" cabinet, slide in range/oven, cabinet, full lazy susan corner, cabinet, sink (same location), cabinet, full lazy susan corner, filler or small cabinet, dishwasher, fridge.

What I don't like about this layout is the range in front of the window (or the range in the same spot with the window removed), and the location of the dishwasher isn't quite as convenient. Right now it is directly left of the sink, and that makes rinsing/loading very simple. However, I cannot keep a full width dishwasher here and have a corner cabinet, as it would be very tight.

Does anyone have any ideas to make this kitchen/dining room come together? I am open to ANY ideas. Let me know what you think.

I have attached a jpg as well as the sketchup file if anyone wants to take a look.





Thanks,
Joe

 

[Gunny]

Would it be feasible to put in new (shorter) windows so that you could run a counter across that wall? It's been my experience that a complete kitchen remodel runs into a lot of dollars, so a couple hundred more for new windows wouldn't be much of a percentage increase.

The wife and I started out with graph paper and a catalog from the cabinet manufacturer (with dimensions) and worked up two or three possible combinations that would work with our dimensions, then picked the one we liked the best.
When we took our plan to one of the big box stores, the lady drew those into her program and we we able to look at the setup from all angles, even had a walk through view. As it worked out, we made a few changes right there, then took her printout home and studied through that for a couple of months, during which me incorporated a few more changes (appliance garages in the corners, etc)/

The changed plans went back to the store and back into the computer so we could see them again, saved and printed out. We went back home and studied those for a couple of weeks before we bit the bullet and committed.

We also made up as complete a list we could think of of everything we'd need for the remodel (Light fixtures, ceiling panels, faucets, flooring, drywall, plumbing materials, electrical outlets, etc) and took that list with us. When the sales lady came up with a final figure for the cabinets, we gave her our other list and asked her how much of a discount we'd get if we bought everything from her store, which worked out to 17% off marked prices for everything.

For the lazy susan corners, make sure you get wooden shelves with bearings, they stand up much better than the plastic shelves on plastic bushings. Factor in as many drawer units as possible, I don't think you can ever have enough drawer space.

I'm also a fan of having the microwave over the range to save on counter space.

 

[dave1949]

An under-counter fridge would give you more counter top space. Maybe you have somewhere to put a full-size frig in a garage or ? for overflow.

A U/C frig would allow you to consider swapping the frig and range side for side.

You could consider replacement windows on the south side that are enough shorter to allow cabinets with a normal back splash.

I can see your challenges with the three entry ways and windows. Is it possible to eliminate through combination either the hall or basement entry?

 

[jrdepew]

Would it be feasible to put in new (shorter) windows so that you could run a counter across that wall? It's been my experience that a complete kitchen remodel runs into a lot of dollars, so a couple hundred more for new windows wouldn't be much of a percentage increase.

The wife and I started out with graph paper and a catalog from the cabinet manufacturer (with dimensions) and worked up two or three possible combinations that would work with our dimensions, then picked the one we liked the best.
When we took our plan to one of the big box stores, the lady drew those into her program and we we able to look at the setup from all angles, even had a walk through view. As it worked out, we made a few changes right there, then took her printout home and studied through that for a couple of months, during which me incorporated a few more changes (appliance garages in the corners, etc)/

The changed plans went back to the store and back into the computer so we could see them again, saved and printed out. We went back home and studied those for a couple of weeks before we bit the bullet and committed.

We also made up as complete a list we could think of of everything we'd need for the remodel (Light fixtures, ceiling panels, faucets, flooring, drywall, plumbing materials, electrical outlets, etc) and took that list with us. When the sales lady came up with a final figure for the cabinets, we gave her our other list and asked her how much of a discount we'd get if we bought everything from her store, which worked out to 17% off marked prices for everything.

For the lazy susan corners, make sure you get wooden shelves with bearings, they stand up much better than the plastic shelves on plastic bushings. Factor in as many drawer units as possible, I don't think you can ever have enough drawer space.

I'm also a fan of having the microwave over the range to save on counter space.

Thanks for the info...I am planning on installing shorter windows, and getting much higher quality windows as well. The previous owners installed the cheap pella windows from big box stores all throughout the house. They are like giant 40 degree radiators when it gets cold out. This will allow me to run counters across that wall. I am still debating having the range/oven directly in front of the window. I will be getting an electric or induction cooktop so there is no chance of an open window blowing out a gas flame and filling the house with natural gas. I have to get ahold of the code guy here and ask about ranges in front of windows. If only he would answer his phone....

Thanks again,
Joe

 

[jrdepew]

An under-counter fridge would give you more counter top space. Maybe you have somewhere to put a full-size frig in a garage or ? for overflow.

A U/C frig would allow you to consider swapping the frig and range side for side.

You could consider replacement windows on the south side that are enough shorter to allow cabinets with a normal back splash.

I can see your challenges with the three entry ways and windows. Is it possible to eliminate through combination either the hall or basement entry?

I wish I could come up with a way to eliminate one of the entrances....but all the ways I can think of are huge amounts of work or break up the flow of the house badly. I will keep thinking on it though...thanks for the ideas.

Joe

 

[1bush2hog]

Can you do anything with that living room wall? If you open part of it up you might have more room for a table and chairs, or a bar. Then you could put your fridge and some cabinets on the wall where the basement and hal;lway entries are, and maybe not have to mess with the two windows on the side wall.

 

[beeforty]

I recommend staying away from down draft cooktops:thumbdown: They require a lot of airflow which puts a vacuum on the inside of the house, just in case you have your windows behind the cooktop and you want ventilation. Since heat rises, an overhead vent doesn't have to draw as much air to be as effective. It is something I didn't know about until after I built with nice airtight windows and doors Now we often need to crack a window when cooking. Same thing with a dryer inside the house, you are pushing out warm moist air from inside and draw in outside air through the cracks.

 

[s219]

I recommend staying away from down draft cooktops:thumbdown: They require a lot of airflow which puts a vacuum on the inside of the house, just in case you have your windows behind the cooktop and you want ventilation. Since heat rises, an overhead vent doesn't have to draw as much air to be as effective. It is something I didn't know about until after I built with nice airtight windows and doors Now we often need to crack a window when cooking. Same thing with a dryer inside the house, you are pushing out warm moist air from inside and draw in outside air through the cracks.

You can put a pressure switch in the duct for the range hood (or downdraft fan) that fires a damper to bring makeup air into the home.

In our area, any range hood or downdraft fan over 400 cfm requires makeup air, and our hood was 460 cfm (one of the smallest we found in the style we wanted). So when the fan speed is high enough to trip the pressure switch, it opens a damper that lets outside air into the home. In extreme climates, people may also add an energy recovery valve (ERV), which is a heat exchanger to condition that makeup air. In our case, the makeup air comes into the conditioned crawl space, so that large volume or air serves as the heat exchanger. By the time the outside air makes it into the living space, it's conditioned.

It's a lot of trouble to go to just for a range hood, but it's needed the way new houses are built so tight.

I wish I had some suggestions for the OP, but we just finished building pour new house and all I can tell you is that the kitchen design/layout was complicated as heck. It took a lot more effort than I was prepared for. The results are great, but it was a challenge, humbling, and expensive. I have a new appreciation for the process.

 

[dave1949]

Have you considered ditching the table and replacing it with a peninsula that projects off the south wall?

If you leave 4' between the east wall and peninsula, use a 3' wide peninsula, you still have roughly 6' of open floor space between the west side of the peninsula and the east edge of the counters on the west wall.

The 4' space along the east wall (between the peninsula and wall) functions as combined seating space and hallway access to the basement door. The stools can be slid under the peninsula counter top when not in use.

Due to the living room entry position, the peninsula could extend ~9' off the south wall which leaves plenty of room for table usage on the living room end. A std. dining table is 3'x5'.

 

[Gunny]

A lot of good ideas posted here, which is a good reason to try and consider all the possibilities before you drive the first nail or screw. Several times I've stood in our kitchen and shivered when I think we might have gone with our first ideas on our remodel. You definitely don't want to jump into this, it's big bucks and a lot of work to redo a kitchen.

Someone else that may have some fresh input would be the kitchen designers at the big box stores. You can take your dimensions and your list of needs/wants/desires with you and let them show you what they come up with. You don't have to commit to anything and their services are free.