L3830 with BH-90 questions
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txdon
Super Star Member
Helpee, I never timed it but the BH90 does "relax". The stabilizers will come down ever so slowly, so will the bucket and the boom. What I do is have a small rope with hooks on it to keep the stabilizers up and use the boom lock pin to keep the boom secure. I don't care if the bucket uncurls a little.
SPaulsen
Bronze Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
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- Monroe, Washington
- Tractor
- Kubota L45TLB, Kubota G2160 R48S mower
I have the same issue with my BH90. I had my service department look it over and they said it was normal.
tanman
Member
I have the same issue. I went to the dealer and complained. They said they cleaned everything out and for me to let them know if the stabilizers continue to do this. The stabilizers STILL relax a little, little, little by the night. I want it fixed. I worked hard for my money and paid a lot for my kubota, I deserve the BEST unless someone tells me different.
Henro
Elite Member
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- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
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- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
I could be wrong, but I doubt that drifting/leaking down of the stabilizers, stick, boom or bucket over time is going to be fixed, unless it is a gross condition.
Same issue with the tractor's loader or 3PH...those may (or may not) drift down over time. My 4690 hoe does the same thing your BH90s are doing.
The symptom could be caused by leakage within the cylinders, but it is more likely caused by a little clearance withing the control valve sections. Which apparently is normal.
There have been a lot of posts here at TBN about this issue, related to front end loaders. If I remember right, someone even dug up a spec, that quantified the amount of fall of the FEL in inches per hour that was considered acceptable or normal.
One way to correct this "problem" is to install pilot operated check valves on the cylinders or somewhere betweent he cylinder and control valve. Doing this eliminates the control valve leakage issue. Nothing beside a rebuild of a cylinder would correct an internal leadage issue with the cylinders. It is doubtful that the issue on a relatively new backhoe would be worn cylinders though.
I think most important is to look at what is happening and determine if it is really a problem, or if it is actually a "normal" condition. I myself find my expectations sometimes don't match what I am seeing, and rather than get worked up about it I try to lower my expectations to match what things really are like. I don't know if this makes any sense.
Final thought. Does you backhoe have a boom lock? I think of the boom lock as a physical indication that the backhoe manufacturer expects some leakdown of the boom cylinder over time...otherwise it would not be needed...(simplistic maybe, one could argue it is a safety backup device...)
Bottom line, it is an inches/hour VS feet/minute question...somewhere in between these speeds the transition from normal to problem occurs.
Can anyone quantify this with a number?
Same issue with the tractor's loader or 3PH...those may (or may not) drift down over time. My 4690 hoe does the same thing your BH90s are doing.
The symptom could be caused by leakage within the cylinders, but it is more likely caused by a little clearance withing the control valve sections. Which apparently is normal.
There have been a lot of posts here at TBN about this issue, related to front end loaders. If I remember right, someone even dug up a spec, that quantified the amount of fall of the FEL in inches per hour that was considered acceptable or normal.
One way to correct this "problem" is to install pilot operated check valves on the cylinders or somewhere betweent he cylinder and control valve. Doing this eliminates the control valve leakage issue. Nothing beside a rebuild of a cylinder would correct an internal leadage issue with the cylinders. It is doubtful that the issue on a relatively new backhoe would be worn cylinders though.
I think most important is to look at what is happening and determine if it is really a problem, or if it is actually a "normal" condition. I myself find my expectations sometimes don't match what I am seeing, and rather than get worked up about it I try to lower my expectations to match what things really are like. I don't know if this makes any sense.
Final thought. Does you backhoe have a boom lock? I think of the boom lock as a physical indication that the backhoe manufacturer expects some leakdown of the boom cylinder over time...otherwise it would not be needed...(simplistic maybe, one could argue it is a safety backup device...)
Bottom line, it is an inches/hour VS feet/minute question...somewhere in between these speeds the transition from normal to problem occurs.
Can anyone quantify this with a number?
txdon
Super Star Member
<font color="blue">"Can anyone quantify this with a number?"
</font>
Henro, mine is about 1/2 inches per hour. This weekend I will give it a test so we will have number to compare.
Tanman, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it I think it is normal. I don't think a lot of dealers have a lot of knowledge about the BH. I had to go to several dealers just to to look at one. I just wish they would put some lock pins on the stabilizers like they do for the swing and boom. HMMM... that may be a new project for me
</font>
Henro, mine is about 1/2 inches per hour. This weekend I will give it a test so we will have number to compare.
Tanman, I wouldn't loose any sleep over it I think it is normal. I don't think a lot of dealers have a lot of knowledge about the BH. I had to go to several dealers just to to look at one. I just wish they would put some lock pins on the stabilizers like they do for the swing and boom. HMMM... that may be a new project for me
tanman
Member
I am not going to lose sleep over a little relaxing of the stabilizers right now but it is a concern. My concern is not right now, but 5 yrs down the road. If it is currently 1/2 inch per hour right now, can u guarantee me that it will be 1/2 inch 5yrs from now? I must be the only person who did not find $30,000 on my trees to pay for for my Kubota. I work hard for my money and I deserve the best (along with every other purchaser) for my money. It is the consumers job to hold the companies to the highest level of production and quality. Why settle for less? I am not. If it is only 1/2 inch per hour Can I have Kubota put it in writing it will not get any worse? I know my stabilizers are worse during the summer months when the days are hotter. I did have the check valves cleaned. Once again, I may be a pain in the butt, but I deserve the best. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
txdon
Super Star Member
Henro and Tanman, I check the relaxing of the stabilizers and bucket after 13 hours. Temperature was in the 50s.
In 13 hours the stabilizer dropped 1/2 inch as measured from the hydraulic cylinder. During the summer it has dropped about halfway down during a week of non-use. the right one drops more than the left.
The bucket seem to drop to a point and then stop. On the 13 hour test the bucket dropped 5 1/2" as measured from the dipper stick to the end of the teeth. See Attachment.
Are the rest of the BH owners experiencing the same drop?
Tanman If they get yours not to drop at all let us know.
In 13 hours the stabilizer dropped 1/2 inch as measured from the hydraulic cylinder. During the summer it has dropped about halfway down during a week of non-use. the right one drops more than the left.
The bucket seem to drop to a point and then stop. On the 13 hour test the bucket dropped 5 1/2" as measured from the dipper stick to the end of the teeth. See Attachment.
Are the rest of the BH owners experiencing the same drop?
Tanman If they get yours not to drop at all let us know.
Attachments
- Joined
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- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
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- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
I don't think I have ever seen ANY hydraulically operated equipment that didn't leak down over a period of time. There is NO WAY that valving will hold static pressure for an indefinite amount of time. Neither will the cylinder packings.
That's why you are supposed to store your FEL with the bucket on the ground, your backhoe with the stabilizer legs down and the bucket/stick on the ground. Actually, it's better for the hydraulic system to store, at rest, the system with the internal pressure at or near 0 psi.
When you remove your FEL from your tractor, you will notice that the stored position is actually a point where the cylinders have NO pressure on them, sort of an equilibrium point. If there was any pressure in the lines, you would not be able to couple the QD fittings again.
A good example of leak down is the new $58K roll off trailer I just got, the hydraulic system relaxes the winch cable over night to a point where the cable is actually drooping and has to be tensioned in the morning. Over the weekend, I always relieve the pressure on the system before I let it sit. That is recommended in the owner's manual.
That's why you are supposed to store your FEL with the bucket on the ground, your backhoe with the stabilizer legs down and the bucket/stick on the ground. Actually, it's better for the hydraulic system to store, at rest, the system with the internal pressure at or near 0 psi.
When you remove your FEL from your tractor, you will notice that the stored position is actually a point where the cylinders have NO pressure on them, sort of an equilibrium point. If there was any pressure in the lines, you would not be able to couple the QD fittings again.
A good example of leak down is the new $58K roll off trailer I just got, the hydraulic system relaxes the winch cable over night to a point where the cable is actually drooping and has to be tensioned in the morning. Over the weekend, I always relieve the pressure on the system before I let it sit. That is recommended in the owner's manual.
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2003
- Messages
- 26,553
- Location
- SE Michigan in the middle of nowhere
- Tractor
- Kubota M9000 HDCC3 M9000 HDC
"I want it fixed".....There ain't nothin broke. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
