Schultz
Gold Member
Several of the same companies that PT uses make samll two speed wheel motors with brakes. I think the mining machines that PT makes have these type wheel motors.
Larger Hydraulic Oil Cooler
- Thread starter Yardscaper
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tracdoc
Platinum Member
I have also been looking into the optimal fluid, and don't understand either why PT uses motor oil. There is a very informative group which discusses the in's and out's of oils and other lubricants
BOBISTHEOILGUY
Basically, as I have come to learn, the main differences amongst these "oils" is firstly whether they are natural (aka "dino"), synthetic (chiefly polyalphaolefins or PAOs) or a blend of the two. After that come the so-called additive packages which will define the oil type, i.e., its application and its properties. The additive packs are manufactured by a small group of companies which then sell to the big oil companies. There are packages to control viscosity, such that it will go up as it heats up (instead of thinning out as unmodified oils will at temp), anti-foaming packages, seal lubricant packages, anti-oxidation packages, etc., etc. In hydraulic fluids (including ATF), the additive packages focus on seal lubrication, anti-oxidation, anti-foam, and water separation.
The info that I've studied champions the use of synthetic oils for hydraulics over dino oils or blends, with the recommendation to change the filter on a regular schedule and top off as necessary. In any of a number of sites there seems to be a strong advocacy for using ATF as replacement for regular hydraulic fluid. Advantages touted are the composition of the additive packs, and the better performance at sustained high temperatures as one sees in automatic transmissions.
As has already been mentioned here, these products are expensive. However, if the performance is enhanced, especially at higher temperatures, AND the oil does not need to be changed for 1000's of hr, the expense may be justified.
Readers please understand that I am NOT recommending that anyone change over to ATF or any other fluid for that matter. This is just information that I have gathered and pass along. I am going on a pilgrimage to Tazewell last week in June and I will ask the "founding fathers" their sage opinions on all this oil stuff.
BOBISTHEOILGUY
Basically, as I have come to learn, the main differences amongst these "oils" is firstly whether they are natural (aka "dino"), synthetic (chiefly polyalphaolefins or PAOs) or a blend of the two. After that come the so-called additive packages which will define the oil type, i.e., its application and its properties. The additive packs are manufactured by a small group of companies which then sell to the big oil companies. There are packages to control viscosity, such that it will go up as it heats up (instead of thinning out as unmodified oils will at temp), anti-foaming packages, seal lubricant packages, anti-oxidation packages, etc., etc. In hydraulic fluids (including ATF), the additive packages focus on seal lubrication, anti-oxidation, anti-foam, and water separation.
The info that I've studied champions the use of synthetic oils for hydraulics over dino oils or blends, with the recommendation to change the filter on a regular schedule and top off as necessary. In any of a number of sites there seems to be a strong advocacy for using ATF as replacement for regular hydraulic fluid. Advantages touted are the composition of the additive packs, and the better performance at sustained high temperatures as one sees in automatic transmissions.
As has already been mentioned here, these products are expensive. However, if the performance is enhanced, especially at higher temperatures, AND the oil does not need to be changed for 1000's of hr, the expense may be justified.
Readers please understand that I am NOT recommending that anyone change over to ATF or any other fluid for that matter. This is just information that I have gathered and pass along. I am going on a pilgrimage to Tazewell last week in June and I will ask the "founding fathers" their sage opinions on all this oil stuff.
Most all the equipment we design and a lot of what we buy is able to run closed loop temps at 220F and general oil temps at 180+. The greatest cause of high temps in hyd systems is pumping over relief (then its all heat), some operators will ram the bucket in a pile of dirt or rock and sit there with their foot on the pedal trying to force the bucket in with the wheels stalled just creating heat in the hydraulics. Just lift or roll the bucket and break the load loose instead of generating all that heat. When the arms or steering moves fully in one direction stop holding the valve open creating heat. When mowing or using the pto don't croud the attachment, slow your travel speed a little when you hit heavy grass thus not to stall the motor and pump over relief. These simple changes can reduce the heat in the hyd by 50 to 80%.
Many motors are available with two or more speeds and pumps and controls are available which would increase effecency in the PT, just how much are you willing to pay for these changes? A 425 with all the pressure comp. controls, proportional valves, horsepower limiter, piston two speed motors, wet brakes, and a few other goodies, would cost 20 to 25K. Would any of you buy one? We all would like 10# of dirt (or something) in a 5# bag!
When I was at PT a few years ago, they were expermenting with several different controls, pumps, motors, valves, etc. but one of their major concerns was adding too much cost and getting the machine over priced, thus missing the market.
In my opinion, the PT is the best designed small machine for the money available today. Its a good value, many other machines are not. It isn't perfect but will do a lot of work for a long time. Again I say, get a machine big enough or strain it's guts out.
EB
Many motors are available with two or more speeds and pumps and controls are available which would increase effecency in the PT, just how much are you willing to pay for these changes? A 425 with all the pressure comp. controls, proportional valves, horsepower limiter, piston two speed motors, wet brakes, and a few other goodies, would cost 20 to 25K. Would any of you buy one? We all would like 10# of dirt (or something) in a 5# bag!
When I was at PT a few years ago, they were expermenting with several different controls, pumps, motors, valves, etc. but one of their major concerns was adding too much cost and getting the machine over priced, thus missing the market.
In my opinion, the PT is the best designed small machine for the money available today. Its a good value, many other machines are not. It isn't perfect but will do a lot of work for a long time. Again I say, get a machine big enough or strain it's guts out.
EB
MuncyBob
Platinum Member
I will be interested to see what you post after your visit to Tazewell....just to get more information on what are the best fluids to use, etc...but Blackwell makes a very important point...know how to "best use" your machine and it's limitations or pay the price! I have limited experience on a FEL but it didn't take me long to learn...let the bucket and arms do the work rather than the wheels. I'll be putting my 422 to the test soon as I have an area of Sumac that just won't die....so the teeth will be going on the bucket and I hope to rid myself of those plants before they take over my property......I'm envisioning a sort of sci-fi movie if I don't do somthing......"Attack of the Sumac"!!! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
General Comment to All re: my PT 425 cooling.
After a few hours the hydraulic oil cooler fan fuse blew, and I didn't realize it until a number of hours later.
Even so, the oil tank seemed hot, but everything worked fine at 85 degree air temp with the tank too hot to touch. Don't know what the oil temp. was.
To avoid future trouble, I may try a 15 amp rather than 10 amp fuse if it goes again. Wiring appears to be OK.
On a similar but unrelated topic. Here in Colorado at nearly 8,000 ft. elevation in direct sun, the gasoline in the solar heated black steel tank will boil if the cap is removed!
I was concerned until I learned that gasoline can boil at a temp as low as 140 degrees at that altitude. Solar gain in a black steel tank here can reach temp of 150 degrees.
I mentioned this to Terry at PT; he had never heard of that, but I don't think there are gas-powered PTs at high elevations.
Mark H.
After a few hours the hydraulic oil cooler fan fuse blew, and I didn't realize it until a number of hours later.
Even so, the oil tank seemed hot, but everything worked fine at 85 degree air temp with the tank too hot to touch. Don't know what the oil temp. was.
To avoid future trouble, I may try a 15 amp rather than 10 amp fuse if it goes again. Wiring appears to be OK.
On a similar but unrelated topic. Here in Colorado at nearly 8,000 ft. elevation in direct sun, the gasoline in the solar heated black steel tank will boil if the cap is removed!
I was concerned until I learned that gasoline can boil at a temp as low as 140 degrees at that altitude. Solar gain in a black steel tank here can reach temp of 150 degrees.
I mentioned this to Terry at PT; he had never heard of that, but I don't think there are gas-powered PTs at high elevations.
Mark H.
MossRoad
Super Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2001
- Messages
- 58,036
- Location
- South Bend, Indiana (near)
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT425 2001 Model Year
Check out Fourteens white paint job. It may lead to much cooler operating temps, too.
Charlie_Iliff
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2001
- Messages
- 1,890
- Location
- Arnold, MD
- Tractor
- Power Trac PT1845, John Deere 2240, John Deere 950, John Deere 755, Jacobsen Turf Cat II
<font color="red"> Check out Fourteens white paint job. It may lead to much cooler operating temps, too.
</font>
Nah. Chrome plate it. You can have the first PT with a mirror finish gas tank. Custom tractor shows will pay you to attend. A whole new career beckons. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
</font>
Nah. Chrome plate it. You can have the first PT with a mirror finish gas tank. Custom tractor shows will pay you to attend. A whole new career beckons. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
FOURTEEN
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 1,042
- Location
- Efland - Triangle of North Carolina.
- Tractor
- 2004 Power Trac PT-425
White can be cool in more ways than one!!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
But anything, even high quality black, is better than that OEM trash that PT provides!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
The white canopy really helped yesterday and today keeping the sun and radiant canopy heat at bay with temperatures in the mid 90's, and a 40' long by 2' deep trench to dig through sun-baked clay to bring electric service to my new 30' x 38' Morton Building!!! This was my first serious use of the MiniHoe. It did a fine job!! The width is great for trench work, but more bucket volume would reduce the number of scoops!!
Even the Building Inspector opined: "What is that!!??!!", then "I have a $12,000 Kubota with a $7,000 backhoe on it!", and then "Power Trac, huh! Boy that's what I need!!" !!!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
PS: My reversed wheels allowed me to straddle the trench with little fear of cave in!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
But anything, even high quality black, is better than that OEM trash that PT provides!! /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
The white canopy really helped yesterday and today keeping the sun and radiant canopy heat at bay with temperatures in the mid 90's, and a 40' long by 2' deep trench to dig through sun-baked clay to bring electric service to my new 30' x 38' Morton Building!!! This was my first serious use of the MiniHoe. It did a fine job!! The width is great for trench work, but more bucket volume would reduce the number of scoops!!
Even the Building Inspector opined: "What is that!!??!!", then "I have a $12,000 Kubota with a $7,000 backhoe on it!", and then "Power Trac, huh! Boy that's what I need!!" !!!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
PS: My reversed wheels allowed me to straddle the trench with little fear of cave in!! /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Bob999
Platinum Member
<font color="red"> Could all PT owners who have no trouble with oil temp please make a very boring post saying all is OK with their machine </font>
I have an 1845 and have not had a problem with oil temps. I purchased my machine a year later than Charlie and Sedgewood and wonder if the oil cooler/fan might have been changed. Also I use a side discharge mower that causes much less problem with chaff than the PT rear discharge mowers.
I have an 1845 and have not had a problem with oil temps. I purchased my machine a year later than Charlie and Sedgewood and wonder if the oil cooler/fan might have been changed. Also I use a side discharge mower that causes much less problem with chaff than the PT rear discharge mowers.