"Lawn Tractors" and Carts

timb · Mar 17, 2003

\"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Change of pace question from my usual CUT research. While I'm counting down the months until I'm at my property full time (< 1 year) and buying a "real" tractor - this year's lawn work looms.

I've also come to the realization that I don't now have and may never bother to put in enough good lawn to justify a six-foot (or even 5-foot) finish deck for the bigger CUT. So - I'm looking at putting that money into getting something more along the lines of a "lawn tractor" size (JD LT160-LX277 range) - for finish mowing. Since I will be getting a much larger CUT eventually I don't have any real need for much in the way of typical "garden tractor" implements for this mower. However, one thing that would be nice would be a small cart for the better half to tote around her miscellaneous implements of destuction.

But - it looks like (reading between the lines) the mfgs. really limit the cart size until you break into the garden tractor level. Are the transaxles in these that wimpy? I'm not going to try to pull a 1-ton trailer - but a cart capable of toting say a couple of hundred pounds would be nice. (Pretty much level yard - certainly no significant grades). The only little lawn/garden tractor I've ever had was a "real" (IH) Cub Cadet 128. I think that thing would have driven through these lawn tractors /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Anyway - is anyone using their lawn tractor with a little cart? - how big? and how well does it work out?

Thanks
Tim

rlk · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Tim, I have a JD LX188 with hydrostatic drive that is about 10 years old. I bought a small trailer from Northern that you put together yourself. I think it is about 4' x 4'. You have to add the floor and sides. It was about $150. I used 3/4 inch pressure treated plywood for the floor and sides.

Before I got the BX 2200, I would fill the trailer about 3/4 full with gravel, and the JD would pull it with no problem. I do not have steep hills - probably would strain going up a steep hill. I would not go down a steep hill with the trailer loaded because I don't think the brakes on the JD would allow it.

I had good luck with this arrangement.

Before getting the JD, I had a rear engine Snapper. It would also pull the trailer loaded with firewood.

Based on my experience with these two riding lawn mowers, I don't think you will have a problem pulling a small, lightly loaded trailer.

rancar · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

"...Anyway - is anyone using their lawn tractor with a little cart? - how big? and how well does it work out?" 

Tim...

I have a John Deere Utility Cart#15 (meaning box capacity is 15 cu.ft.) for my JD425(20HP) lawn tractor. I find this cart real handy to do chores just as you describe. Load capacity is 1,500 lbs...and I have filled the cart with about that much weight carrying gravel and dirt. I've had no problems with the axle but if the tires are under inflated, it is VERY noticeable. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I just make sure I pump air to maximum inflation limits and I'm good to go carrying these heavy loads. You could get smaller carts from JD as well. #10 has a load capacity of 1,000lbs. #7 has a load capacity of 700lbs.

...Bob

timb · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Bob,

Thanks for the cart info.

What was worrying me about toting a load - JD doesn't even list any carts for their lawn tractors until you get up to the "LX" series and the ONLY cart listed there these days is the 7 cu. ft. model. I haven't found anywhere listing the trailer capacity for the lawn tractors and I hadn't been able to find any specs on the 7 cu. ft. cart. Not sure I like that particular cart (probably build my own like rlk) but 700 lbs is more than enough capacity for what I have in mind.

This is a question I should have asked the dealer but I didn't think of it while we were there.

Since I will be getting a bigger CUT I don't need the hydraulics, rear PTO, et al that you start getting into (and paying $$$ for) in the "lawn-and-garden" or "garden" level tractors - but I would like the heavier-duty all-around build if I could get it without the bells and whistles.

Sounds like the LX277 (with 17 hp Kawasaki twin) will work out in that role ok.

Tim

Schultz · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

I have an Ingersol 18hp 448 and the Ingersoll 1000lb cart with sides and I also use my 5'x8' trailer behind the tractor. I think any of the garden tractors can pull the carts without axle problems. You’re more likely limited by traction.
I put a ball hitch on the cart and the tractor so I can hitch to the cart or the trailer with ease. Each spring I load the trailer with about 2500 lbs of compost from the neighbors horses. My only limitation is traction and breaking power. I put it low range while driving down my driveway to keep it under control and then I drive as fast as I can into the garden because the trailer tires usually sink within the first 15-20 feet causing the tractor tires to spin. Then I throw off as much as it takes to move to another spot in the garden.

rancar · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Tim...

"...I haven't found anywhere listing the trailer capacity for the lawn tractors and I hadn't been able to find any specs on the 7 cu. ft. cart..."

Following is from the latest edition (page121) of JD's Grounds Care Equipment Purchasing Guide. Your JD dealer should have a copy. It lists all the specs of JD's line of garden and compact tractors and many attachments.

Cart #7

Box Capacity
Struck.....7 cu.ft.
Heaped....8.5cu.ft.
Load....700lbs

Box Dimensions
Width....30.25in.
Length....34in.
Depth....12in.

Box Construction....Bolted
Steel Gauge....18

Tailgate....Hinged/Removable

Tires....Pneumatic, 2PR

Tire Size....14.00x4-6

Wheel Bearings....Iron/Oilite with grease fittings

Axle Diameter.... 3/4in.

Hitch....Tethered Chain

Maximum tongue weight....70lbs.

Dump Angle....30 deg.

Ground Angle.... 5 3/4in.

Net Weight....73lbs.

The price should be around $300+/-. I've seen similar generic carts being sold by Walmarts and Home Depots that look like they are made just as well for somewhat less in price if cost is a major consideration.

....Bob

JIMCT · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

I went to a parade last summer where several of the floats were pulled by 300 & 400 series John Deeres. These were large fancy floats and the tractors were covered by huge decorative "boxes". You had to be very close to see the little tractor underneath. I guess towing capacity is limited mostly by downhill/braking/safety issues.

timb · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Bob,

What was most "telling" to me was using "reverse psychology" with the #7 cart to find out what the "blessed" towing capacity of the LX277 was. That's the number I really wanted to find - but it's a number missing from even the on-line operator's manual. The Dutch and UK JD sites (if you dig really far) show the #10 and #15 carts (up to a full load of 680 kg) are fine - but that isn't in the U.S. attachment list.

Since I doubt the LX277 uses a different tranny on the other side of the pond - it gives me some comfort that I won't trash the hydro pulling a decent lawn cart. I figure if I'm not using tire chains - and a 4 wheel (neutral tongue weight) cart - and still not slipping the tires on grass then I can't be doing too much harm.

I will definitely follow-up with the dealer to see if he has actual documentation as to max. towing capacity.

(When we were still looking at the low-end "L" series - we had been talking about the 4710 I'll be looking for next year. My wife asked if the dealer would throw in the L if we bought the big tractor. The dealer smiled and said, "sure, if we buy the 4710" (and he dropped his voice slightly) "at list" he'd "throw in the 'L'".)

Everyone's a comedian. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

chrisjbell · Mar 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

I wouldn't worry about the "blessed" specs too much. I have a JD LX255 and I haul a 17 yard cart that I picked up at Home Depot for about $150. I fill that thing with just about anything - I use it all the time to haul firewood up a pretty steep driveway. It is also really nice for giving the kids a ride in. But I'm sure I load the thing up more than it is rated for and there haven't been any bad effects in over three years. It is actually one of our favorites for hauling stuff around - we use the JD to pull it instead of the Kubota because it is easier to maneuver.

rancar · Mar 18, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Tim...

That's the number I really wanted to find - but it's a number missing from even the on-line operator's manual...that isn't in the U.S. attachment list...When we were still looking at the low-end "L" series - we had been talking about the 4710 I'll be looking for next year. My wife asked if the dealer would throw in the L if we bought the big tractor. The dealer smiled and said, "sure, if we buy the 4710" (and he dropped his voice slightly) "at list" he'd "throw in the 'L'".)


I recall we've discussed some of the faulty information located on the JD website and in the printed material in other TBN threads. Certainly, it's a disappointment when one can't find this information on what is regarded to be a very good website (and IMO it is relative to other websites I've seen) or when the information is misleading or incorrect as we talked sometime back on engine torque. All I can say is, grill that dealer a bit and get him to dig up the specs....if anyone should have it, it should be him.

Now for that 4710 and throw in the lawn tractor for free deal. The dealer may have been facetious when he said this or maybe not. It certainly isn't worth it if you bought the 4710 at list price. But, tractor sales have been down last couple of years and the burden remains on the dealer to sell product. So....these creative combo deals may not sound so bad if you could talk the dealer down to a reasonable sales price on the 4710.

How about this one for you to consider. Go shopping for the 4710 now....try to talk a desperate dealer who needs to make a sale into selling you a 4710 at 15-20% off MSRP and get him to throw the #7 cart in for free. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

...Bob

timb · Mar 18, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Bob,

I intend to touch base with the dealer on the "towing capacity" - if there is a limit written down somewhere. I started off on this most recent sojourn looking for something used. One of the benefits of new is of course having that 2-year warranty. But I'd hate to have JD tell me I abused the poor thing and not cover a transmission failure.

However - the good news is that it sounds like this "little" guy can do anything I'd want a machine of this size to do. It's like pulling teeth but do enough digging and you find "specs". (Always with the caveat to take some numbers with a grain of salt.) It appears that the LX series uses if not the same frame, then one with just as heavy (3mm) of steel as the GT and GX garden tractors. The UK and Dutch JD pages list the 1000 lb and 1500 lb trailers as compatible. So I doubt that I'll hurt it.

After all this time looking at the CUTs, I do wish it didn't have "roller skate" wheels though. Ah well, it will be the wife's JD anyway. I doubt I'll see it much after she get's used to it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And the 4710 comment from the dealer was strictly tongue-in-cheek. I hadn't really thought of going to this dealer for a quote - he is a lawn-and-garden guy but does deal with the occasional CUT. (Had a 790 and 4115 in the showroom when I was there.) In the lawn-and-garden biz around here he does have a very good reputation going back a long way - my in-laws have dealt with him for years - and he's located about 200 yards down the highway from where my back road comes out. Can't hurt to let him work up a number when I'm ready I suppose. I was just a little concerned about his shop's ability to deal with, service, or even set up a CUT.

Tim

rancar · Mar 18, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

"...I was just a little concerned about his shop's ability to deal with, service, or even set up a CUT."

This is a valid concern Tim and one that most should not readily dismiss. If a 'lawn and tractor' dealer sells let's say only one 4710 all year....then the question that has to be asked is if they know how to do everything related to the set-up. My dealer spent about 8 hours setting up my 4710. It was done by a technician who does this type of work all the time and I recall him telling me a couple things that were problematic and time consuming to install. I'm glad to report everything works great but it works great because I feel like I had a good technician who did this work many times before and who knew what he was doing. I've heard of horror stories here at TBN from those whose dealers did not know what they were doing. This is why I advocate comparison shopping and asking all of these price, service, warranty, and set-up questions beforehand so one can get a feel for what the dealer is like.

BTW, if you go with that #7 cart, I think you'll like it. I love my #15....it was a bit pricey but I've carried a ton of weight in it. Apart from making sure I had maximum tire inflation, I've had no problems with it. It's held up real well. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

...Bob

chrisjbell · Mar 19, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

 I was just a little concerned about his shop's ability to deal with, service, or even set up a CUT.


Yeah, that is something to be concerned about. Those things are shipped to the dealer in a crate, and the dealer has to have someone basically complete the assembly on site. I'm quite certain it is like anything else - if you do it all the time it is a peice of cake but if you do it once a year it'll take you forever.

Here's what I think is a perfect analogy. I'm a computer programmer, and have been in the industry for 20 years. When I started out, and for a number of years I was a hand's on technician, building systems, installing operating systems, configuring networks, and stuff like that. I have moved more and more into just programming, and now rely on other people to set up the servers and networks for me.

So whereas say 10 years ago I could do network configuration in my sleep, today when I have to do it (rarely, fortunately) I forget this, mess up that, and take way longer than the folks that do it all the time would. I used to keep the cover of my own PC off (or at least kept the screws out of it) because I tinkered with the configurations so often. Any more I know that if I open the box my computer will be down for two or three days /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif.

So when (if) you decide to drop 15 or 20 large or so, make sure you deliver the money to someone that works on that level of equipment all the time. My dealer's guys do nothing else, and they're great.

Oh, I'm pretty sure that you're right about the frame in the LX. That was one of the reasons I went with that tractor - my dealer assured me that I could take it out in the pasture and no harm would come to the frame. I'm pretty sure he said that all the JD lawn tractors have the same heavy duty frames.

timb · Mar 19, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Chrisjbell,

 I forget this, mess up that, and take way longer than the folks that do it all the time would. 

Boy do I hear you on that! I've spent 3 days reconfiguring a scheduled reboot script on a particular UNIX server here that I set up years ago. Long ago I handed over the hands-on reins but over time everyone who knew the intricacies of that box have moved on - I'm the last one left but it's been awhile since I've personally been into it this deep. Actually it's fun - better than the nth re-do of next year's capital plan or some other paperwork push.

Anyway - I guess scope creep is one thing I'm guilty of when looking at the lighter lawn tractors. I've spent so much time looking at the infinitely heavier duty CUTs and full-sized ag tractors - that these things seem so flyweight in comparison. I have to keep reminding myself of the limited mission for that mower.

All things being equal - I did "find" the "mower" I'd like to have in that space - the JD GX355. Nearly the same physical size as the LX lawn tractors but about 50% heavier - and with a nice little 18 hp 2-cylinder 46 cu. in. Yanmar diesel. That thing's deluxe all the way and I can't see how I could hurt it in that role. Unfortunately all "things" aren't equal - that little puppy goes for around $7,000 /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif - twice the LX277. Can't justify it - even using the improved fuel mileage! (I tried)

PhilNH5 · Mar 19, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Tim,
This used to come up often on the Gardenweb tractors forum Some of the Deere LTs were not rated for carts at all. People could not understand how a $2K Deere could not pull a cart while a $1K Craftsman could. Led to all sorts of fun name calling posts.

That said - I had a Craftsman 11.5 HP 38 inch deck I got in 1990. I spent the best 99 dollars of my life and brought a cart at Walmart. I hauled tons of dirt, sand and bricks when I built a patio. Moved tons of firewood. Never had any trouble with the Craftsman. The cart was 7 cubic feet and I often filled it till the tires were flat. Craftsman never hesitated. Had it for 10 years and gave it away when I fell into a great deal on a Toro. Still have the cart /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

So as others have posted - don't get hung up on the specs. Just use comon sense and caution on hills.

Phil

timb · Mar 19, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Phil,

I agree. The best news I saw was that JD lists both the 10 cu. ft. (1000 lb capacity) and 15 cu. ft. (1500 lb capacity) as "OK" for the LX277 on the UK and Netherlands sites. I really don't plan on trying to pull that much around but I suspect there's plenty of headroom in the U.S. limits.

Unless of course the wife decides she really must have the power steering and tilt wheel of the GX series! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif I wouldn't talk her out of that since she's willing to do most of the lawn cutting.

However, if I order the eventual 4x10-series CUT with hydro and she realizes how similar the controls are I might be in trouble. A good case for gear. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Tim

chrisjbell · Mar 20, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

 that little puppy goes for around $7,000 - twice the LX277 

Yikes! No wonder I didn't buy a GX! For that kind of spare change you can pick up one of the smaller CUTs. Actually, I did price the GX series and couldn't justify it, either. But they sure are sweet tractors....

And yeah, it can be kind of fun messing with reconfiguring computers. You just have to remember that you aren't as fast at it as you used to be... But it sure does beat financials and such. My wife is a manager / former engineer and she just can't help but try to be technical again. Drives her engineers crazy, I'll bet /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

timb · Mar 20, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

Seems like a lot of people are really happy with their LX series. If I don't come across something decent used it will most likely either be an LX277 or a GT235, now that the GT also has a Kawasaki twin (18hp vs. 17hp) and isn't a lot more ca$h - but does have the exact same control layout, an even stronger hydro and bigger tires (with the option of bar treads). We'll be talking to the dealer again before long.

Anonymous Poster · May 27, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

My 23 hp gas engine craftsman riding lawn more pulles a
10 cubic foot cart 1,000. lbs with out a problem the cart was all steel that I assembled. I even made it a dump cart the I could dump by pulling the lever that raised and lowers the mower deck. It is dumped by using the sleeve hitch. I filled the cart up with gravel and rocks and dumped it from my seat tractor pulles it easially up my steep gravel or asphalt driveway. or around the gravel part of my yard. David.

Knute · Jul 17, 2003

Re: \"Lawn Tractors\" and Carts

This thread is a bit old, bit it was still on the first page so I'll toss in my two cents.

I recently got an old JD 108 Tractor (says Tractor on the plate, but it's really just a lawn/garden tractor) third hand from a friend, who got it from one of his neighbors. I have no idea how old this is, but it's far from new. It has a whopping 8 hp B&S engine in it and has no problem towing a trailer. I picked up a 10 cubic foot trailer from Sears for $110. The Craftsman website says it's rated to 600 lbs. I've put a good 700 lbs of gravel in it and had no problem with either the trailer or the small JD pulling it up my long rough driveway.

Just my two cents.