lee moore case 446 hy problems

[lee moore]

restoring my446, the things I have done are went to a 18 horse vanguard ,put on a johnny bucket,installed newag.tires and repainted the tractor. reused the 15w40 hyd oil. now I have a problem getting the trastor to pull can this be air in the system. the hy lifts work fine and the tiller runs ok .I have to turn the gas up high to get tractor to go. barely pull itself up a hill ,any suggestions thanks,lee

 

[hydriv]

More information is needed.

There is a difference between hooking up the tiller, turning the rear PTO valve to on and watching the tines rotate... compared to going out into the garden and making the tiller chew up unbroken ground. Which is it?

What happens when you put the tractor into reverse? Does it move just fine when backing up?

What is the model number and serial number of the tractor?

Did the tractor perform properly BEFORE you began this work?

Other than installing a non-OEM engine, did you take anything apart that had to do with the hydraulic system?

 

[lee moore]

case model 446-79 serial#9768014,i tried the tiller today runs when its up stops when in the dirt, reverse is the same as forward , I have had the engine on for 2 years motor lost ground and I took it off to have it checked was not anything wrong with motor ,I was using chains on turf tires and they wanted to hang on fenders or me.i decided to put on ag tires and paint tractor .I drained oil from hy. took hy tank off removed pump flex line to heat exchanger,removed hy line from pump to hy pto ,removed pto hyd. did not remove anything from underneath tractor other parts I removed did not concern hyd, thanks lee

 

[hydriv]

You and I must use the same words when describing components or this conversation will become confusing for both of us.

The Vanguard ENGINE was installed two years ago by you and has been powering the tractor just fine until just recently. Is that a true statement?

You suspected that something was wrong with the hydraulic MOTOR and had it tested but it checked out OK. Is that also a true statement?


If so, then I suspect that when you assembled the pump and engine, you did not leave any space in the Lovejoy coupler. If I am right, then the lack of space (needed for expansion when things reach operating temperature) caused the rubber spider to fail and disintegrate over time. Once the spider was shredded, the "Jaws" of the coupler halves have been destroying each other and now, you are only getting a bit of pump rotation when there is no real load on the pump.

If is also possible that you lost a key out of one half of the Lovejoy coupler and that would also result in the same thing.


The only other item would be a very badly worn hydraulic pump but if this condition came about rather suddenly, then I doubt that the pump is the problem. I would try to see what is going on with the Lovejoy coupler.


Your tractor has the reservoir under the battery and it sits above the pump inlet. The second you pour oil into the reservoir, it flows out of the tank into the J-hose and right into the hydraulic pump. Air cannot accumulate. However, If you failed to properly tighten the clamps on the J-hose, then you may be sucking air into the system. When this happens, the pump churns the air and oil together to create FOAM. Your tractor cannot operate with foamed oil. You will have no power to operate the tiller of the drive motor. Run the engine and shine a light into the reservoir to see if you can spot any foam.

If you used those worm-type gear clamps on your hoses, you made a mistake. Those are junk.

 

[lee moore]

it was the vanguard engine I took off and had checked have not worked on the hydraulic motor-while the motor was off I started the other work spider looks good from the side but I am going to remove ,check spacing,clamps, and change oil ,if this is not the problem find a pump. yesterday I moved tractor from one building to my shop about 20 yards when I pulled in oil was overflowing top of hydraulic tank when I cut engine off oil went down about 6 inches-maybe pump was not moving the oil thanks for the help,lee

 

[hydriv]

If you wish to discuss any aspect of the Vanguard, please do not call it a "motor"..... call it an "engine" ONLY. The term "motor" is reserved for the hydraulic motor bolted to the trans-axle that propels the tractor. When you mix the two terms, it becomes confusing and that makes it difficult to help you. OK?


The fact that oil was overflowing, indicates a foaming condition that is caused by air being sucked into the INLET side of the hydraulic pump. That pump is moving the oil but it is moving foamy oil, not liquid oil. When air is entrapped in the oil, then the system cannot build pressure to perform any real work because air can be compressed.........pure liquid cannot be compressed.


As I stated earlier, if you are using those worm-screw gear clamps on any of your hoses in the hydraulic system, then that is a mistake that needs to be corrected. What you need are the flat band clamps such as the ones you see here.

McMaster-Carr

Also.... make sure that your pump inlet fitting is sealing properly. Some OEM pumps used a moulded steel elbow that was pressed into the pump with an O-ring on it to seal between the fitting and the pump body. If that O-ring is missing or damaged, then air will get sucked past it. Aftermarket pumps use an O-ring Boss fitting (ORB). The inlet is threaded and the inlet fitting screws into it. In order to seal that connection, there is a large nut on the inlet fitting that forces a large washer against the pump housing and squeezes down on an O-ring to make the seal. If the O-ring is damaged or missing, then air will get sucked into the pump.

Focus on the J-hose, the clamps that secure that hose and the fittings that go into the pump body.