Lemon

RonL · Sep 22, 2003

This may be a distantly related topic but I value the opinion of the group. I bought a diesel VW Beetle in 1999 with the intent of having a decent vehicle that got outstanding mileage. My wife drove it mostly, as she puts on a lot more mileage because of her job. When the vehicle was paid for we intended to keep it for cheap daily transportation and buy a large SUV for when we needed to load up the dogs and whoever and headed up to the mountain. The problem was the VW TDI turned out to be a lemon. The car was in the shop numerous times. The windows would not function properly and were repaired a number of times until a recall replaced the tracks. The air conditioner failed and was replaced. Last year during our vacation in the mountains the injectors went. At 28,000 miles the car was again in the shop for major repairs. The dealer offered me an OK ( not great) deal on a new Passat GLX wagon. The car had a V6 and 4Motion. I figured this might be a compromise to having a cheap daily driver and a vehicle that could haul me, my wife, and the dogs up the dirt road to The Mountain. I traded in the Bug for the Passat. First rain storm water poured in behind the dash and soaked the interior of the car. Car has been in the shop at least five times. Had rental cars three times. VW of America came and determined that the problem was a "blocked drain from the sun roof". When I went out to the dealership to look at the car and point out where I had seen the water pouring
in, the interior of the was completely torn out and they HAD DRILLED HOLES IN THE FLOOR PAN to drain it out. When I pointed out the holes the service manager stated that they would be plugged and that it would be no big deal. I made further complaints to VWoA. The dealer rushed to put the car back together as I was going on vacation and I don't believe that they wanted to continue to supply a replacement car. I just got back from vacation and had a message from VWoA. They declined to buy back the car and would continue to repair the car under warranty. I am truly disgusted with VW . I intend to invoke Massachusetts' Lemon Law. I must send a registered letter demanding that VW fix the problem within seven days ( they threw the wet carpets back in). However, I believe the car is compromised and can never be made whole. Is it common practice to drill holes in the floor pan? Opinions?

BTW, I have a 1997 Ford F350 that I will probably keep for at least ten more years.

RonL

Gary_in_Indiana · Sep 22, 2003

Drilling holes in the floor pan is NOT common practice in my 27 years in the industry. Even with a few inches of standing water I wouldn't drill a hole in the floor pan. That's why god made pumps and wet/dry shop vacs.

I'm not familiar with the VW product (they're a tad smallish for me) but I wonder if they even have a frame in the conventional sense or are built with the 'uni-body' system. If they are, I'd think that, much like drilling holes in your ROPS on your tractor (notice how this is now a 'Related Topic?') there might be some compromise in the structural integrity. I tend to believe if VW wanted drain holes there, they would have included that feature in the design process.

I'm also curious as to how these holes were plugged. Were they simply plugged with the appropriate size rubber plug from the corner hardware store or were they patched with sheet metal, pop rivets and some tar sealant or were they welded closed?

I'd think you're about at the point where you need some legal advice from someone who's dealt with this kind of thing before. I normally like to see anyone try to work things out before going that route and it seems like you have.

Good luck with whatever you decide. I hope this helps. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

RonL · Dec 21, 2003

I thought that I had incredibly bad luck getting two VW lemons in a row. After reading articles in Time, Motor Trend, and logging onto myvwlemon.com I realized that it is a common occurance. VW is producing absolute garbage. I realize how naive I was thinking that VWoA would stand behind their product. If VWoA stood behind their product they would have to buy back countless vehicles. I now understand why they repeatedly blew me off.

RonL

TresCrows · Dec 21, 2003

"I'm not familiar with the VW product (they're a tad smallish for me) but I wonder if they even have a frame in the conventional sense or are built with the 'uni-body' system."

Oh, come on now, of course they are unibody like all cars and many trucks and vans. Most pickups and large vans are still on a frame. Even Jeep products are unibody. Uni bodys incorporate subframes but I have not seen a car in years that was not unibody. Maybe the largest Ford/Chevy like the Caprice and whatever the LTD is called these days if they even still make it.
I am not a VW fan. Look, rather than the VW you should have bought a Toyota Corrola, Matrix or their little Corrola based mini SUV. If you had done so you would still have a nice little runabout. I don't believe in lemons. The Matrix for example, popular with Gen X is available with 4WD or front drive, has a revvy little 1.8 litre, gets great mileage in either auto or manual transmissions and the little thing goes like stink and handles like a Formula 1 race car. It also has airbags and Toyotas usual "crash" ruggedness. They also, loaded out run well under 20,000 and in fact some nice units are under 16,000. They have a large cargo area and plenty of room for people and YES, they are unibody. J

ronjhall · Dec 21, 2003

RonL
Heard a report about buying used cars on the local all news radio station this morning.
There reports were that most of the bad cars to buy used were American made except for 2 Volkswagen models and the Mercedes M class. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
I believe their report was quoted from Consumers Report.

Egon · Dec 21, 2003

Will " the Lemon Law " apply in your situation. It's a Govt. mandated buyback after a certain amount of repairs. I'm not familiar enough with it to make more comments but suggest you follow up.

The Lemon Aid website/ books will give more information.

Egon

Junkman · Dec 21, 2003

Your salvation in this matter will be dealt with by the Motor Vehicle Laws of the State of Massachussetts.... It is illegal to sell a vehicle that has been damaged by water unless the title is marked "flood damage". Since the car had standing water that covered the carpets, the state would consider this a flood vehicle and as such would have to be declared "salvage". Now is the time to call your insurance company and get them involved. I wouldn't accept the vehicle back under any conditions because of the problem and if you do keep the vehicle you would be duty bound to notify any future purchaser of the past problems and damage. This vehicle in all probability will be marked for life in the VW history computers as having problems and will have "diminished value" as a result. If the vehicle is financed, you might want to also get the finance company involved in this matter also. I don't remember the exact facts, but there is a section of the financing laws that allow you to stop making payments on a vehicle that has problems. I had heard about this a few years ago from someone in MA that also had a manufacturing related defective automobile.

RonL · Dec 21, 2003

Egon

Before I had the car one year and with less than fifteen thousand miles, I sent a formal " Lemon Law" letter to VWoA by certified mail. They took the car in again ( for about the tenth time) dismantled the vehicle and rebuilt it. They returned it to me in the allotted time. They are, however, waiting for a piece of trim.
After seeing all the outcry from other VW owners and the bad publicity, I don't think that I would ever get fair value for the car. Also, I don't think the car can ever be made whole after drilling holes in the floor pan. If I made full disclosure on the car I would not be able to sell it. I intend to contact VWoA and insist that they buy back the car. If not then it is legal action time. Disgusted with the whole situation.

RonL

Junkman · Dec 21, 2003

Ron......... I think that you are wasting time trying to work with VWoA. I think that you will have to put the pressure on them from the other directions as I have suggested. I had a problem with Ford and it went no where until I put the pressure on them from the governmental end of things. That got their attention and problem resolved. You are a small cog in the big wheel and no matter how hard you try, they can still ignore you. They won't ignore complaints from the Attorney General's office. I still think that you can make a claim on your insurance and they will also get on the case of the dealership and VWoA. If you wanted a salvage car, you could have bought it on Granite Street and had less problems! At least they know how to fix them without drilling holes in the floor. It would be interesting to see what Car Fax has on record on your car already..... you might find that it has already has a "black eye".......