Lincwelder 225 vs Everlast Mig 160

[Scott in IN]

I had a nice talk with Mark over at Everlast today and before I decide what I'm going to do I thought I'd toss it out to the group.

My barn is too far from the road for utility power so I have a 10KW Onan Diesel generator for barn power. I've been looking at adding a welder to my collection and the Everlast inverter technology looks real appealing. I'm leaning towards a Mig 160 but I just ran across a used Lincwelder 225 for $275. I'll be basically putzing around in the barn building brackets and such with the occasional bushhog repair all on steel.

I figure that a Everlast is going to cost around $620 or so, another $100 for the argon tank and another $50 for a HF cart. Basically I'll have $800 into the welding rig that can do Mig and stick. However if my generator power isn't 'clean' (I think it is) I stand the chance of burning up the inverter.

If I go with the engine driven Lincoln I'll have $275 into it but I'll be limited to stick but I'll have high DC amps. No power quality issues to deal with but I'll have problems with sheet metal projects (though I do have a torch).

I keep wavering back and forth on which would be the best way to go.

Thoughts from the group.

 

[Redneck in training]

I thought that it is the other way around. Devices with transformers can burn due to dirty power. UPS or inverters care less what quality power you feed them. But I might be wrong.

 

[gauthier]

The only reason,as far as I'm concerned, to have a mig,is if,you were going to be welding mostly sheet metal,or if you planned on welding aluminum,I can weld down to 1/8 thick[maybe even a little less on occasion] and unlimited thick,steel,with stick.

 

[k0ua]

not braggin, and I am no expert, at all, but I have welded plenty of sheet metal with stick, it is just a PITA, need low current, either 40 or 60 amps and a 1/16 inch rod, and move fast, be prepared to burn a lot of holes at first, but it can be done. I used to keep an old riding lawn mower going that the frame was always developing new cracks. I would weld them up. did not always look pretty but doable.. That said, I am sure a good MIG would have done a lot better:thumbsup: by the way, all of this was done with Lincoln 225 AC stick. Just got the Everlast DC 160 stick tonite, havent tried it yet. Will let you all know.

 

[gauthier]

10-4,mig is made for sheet metal,,but I'm betting most people who want and need a welder,are not planning on getting it for sheet metal,and like you said you can weld a little sheet metal on the needed basis with a stick machine.

 

[yomax4]

You could buy the inexpensive LincWelder and watch for a Voltage Sensing Suitcase Feeder to come up for sale. It would hook to your stick and give you Mig as well. Not to cause controversy. I visit plants every day that build everything from Bob Cat Buckets to Rail Road Tank cars. None of them use Stick. It's all Mig. It would be cool to see a Robot welding with Stick though.:laughing:

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

10-4,mig is made for sheet metal,,but I'm betting most people who want and need a welder,are not planning on getting it for sheet metal,and like you said you can weld a little sheet metal on the needed basis with a stick machine.

If mig is for sheet metal , some one should call Cat,Deer and the rest of the heavy equiptment manufactures and tell them they are building there machines wrong since they are all mig welded. Yes the little 110V migs can't weld any thing verry thick. The large migs can weld anything a stick can.
Bill

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

welder inverters and UPS are different animals. Some UPS will smoke on bad power, but its not just low voltage or frequencies deficiencies that make "dirty" power. Its actually in the sine wave. Square wave generators are good for light bulbs and a few other things, but not for electronics.

Inverter welders are computers of sorts. We have voltage line compensation of 10% and allowance of 50-60 hz, which is pretty much standard across the industry. Spikes and "noise" create the dirty power, when viewed on an oscilloscope.

 

[gauthier]

I knew I could bring out those mig a philes[pretty good huh,just invented that migophiles]...now a mig,is not fuxcore,number 1,,,number two,there are many different mig process,[pulse,spray,gobular,just off top of my head],but most generally when we talk mig on here we are talking short circuiting,I bet,[don't know for sure now],but would bet,cat don't use short circuiting mig for anything other than the thin stuff,real thin stuff.
Some welding codes have what they call prequalified welding procedures[if you do it this way,you don't have to weld a test joint to prove it,its been proven over time,etc],but they will not let you do it that way with short circuiting mig,you have to weld up a joint simular to the job you will be doing and test it before you can weld to that code with it.

 

[EuropaChris]

number two,there are many different mig process,[pulse,spray,gobular,just off top of my head],but most generally when we talk mig on here we are talking short circuiting,I bet,[don't know for sure now],but would bet,cat don't use short circuiting mig for anything other than the thin stuff,real thin stuff.

We're not cat, but do have some equivalent products and we weld up to and past 1/2" thick with MIG all day long, both manual and robot. 0.045 to .052" wire, up to 400 amps. At that level, it sounds like a Star Trek phaser rather than welding.

But, very little to none of the welding is "full penetration". It's all fillet and lap welds - "T" joints and overlapping plate - and I think all single pass. Just like a giant caulk job!

 

[gauthier]

Well,lets put it this way,I have welded pipe with mig that has passed bend and tensile tests,with .035 wire about 120 amps or so,I was a stick welder,than worked for a guy who wanted to start welding some stuff with mig[short circuiting],so I had to figure out how this thing worked,took me a quite awhile and several failed attemps to get it,

So,,from experience can tell you mig has a big problem with cold lap and lack of fusion at around those amps[you can't weld pipe in postion at much higher amps than that],so considering your average newbie/back yard type has less experience at welding than I did when I first started trying it,would not recommend it for anybody who wants to weld something other than thin stuff,he ain't going to be running high amps,he won't know the tricks to get the weld to fuse at lower amps.

Generally on thick stuff in these fab shops they use flux core or subarc,from my experience. But guess not all,in a bridge shop you won't see them welding the thick stuff with short circuiting mig,know that from having inspected in them for a few years

 

[toy]

I had a nice talk with Mark over at Everlast today and before I decide what I'm going to do I thought I'd toss it out to the group.

My barn is too far from the road for utility power so I have a 10KW Onan Diesel generator for barn power. I've been looking at adding a welder to my collection and the Everlast inverter technology looks real appealing. I'm leaning towards a Mig 160 but I just ran across a used Lincwelder 225 for $275. I'll be basically putzing around in the barn building brackets and such with the occasional bushhog repair all on steel.

I figure that a Everlast is going to cost around $620 or so, another $100 for the argon tank and another $50 for a HF cart. Basically I'll have $800 into the welding rig that can do Mig and stick. However if my generator power isn't 'clean' (I think it is) I stand the chance of burning up the inverter.

If I go with the engine driven Lincoln I'll have $275 into it but I'll be limited to stick but I'll have high DC amps. No power quality issues to deal with but I'll have problems with sheet metal projects (though I do have a torch).

I keep wavering back and forth on which would be the best way to go.

Thoughts from the group.

I would consider the condition of the lincoln welder, I believe you said that it was a dc welder and had an engine to generate the power for it {or was you referring to the generator you already have} I would find out what a new one like that would cost and I would let that play a part in my decision making. If the savings is substantial and the machine works good and don't look too beat up then I might get that first and then later on get a mig and that way you would have both and if the lincoln has an engine driven generator on it you wouldn't be limited to where you could weld with it. The new mig will still be there when you recoup a little funds from the $275 of the Lincoln purchase , but if you get the mig first the Lincoln will be gone probably by the time you recoup from the cost of the mig. You might be able to negotiate down the price of the Lincoln. I kick decision making like that around back and forth but when I finally decide and get whatever it is home then most of the time I am satisfied but my wife says don't talk about women not being able to make up their minds while I am in the decision process.

 

[Brad_Blazer]

Check out this option at Northern:
FREE SHIPPING — Northern Industrial MIG/Stick 200 Welder | Wirefeed Welders | Northern Tool + Equipment

 

[Stampeder]

Scott:

Easy solution, buy both!!!
I have a fifteen acre ranch and I have both a tombstone and a MIG. I am looking to buy a gas powered welder. Some of my stuff I can get back to the barn, but others like the pipe fencing we have alll around the property requires going to it.
Mig gives you nice clean highly controlled welds. I guarantee you will be very happy with the Mig once you get a little practice with it. I use my mig all the time for every kind of welding. Mine is a 160 amp and I've welded upto 1/2 thick plate with it and down to 20 gauge sheet metal.

Stick and DC welding have they're places, but given the choice and if I had to chose one over the other, I would definitely take the mig first for all my farm welding.

But as I said before, buy them both and you'll be really happy.:thumbsup:

By the way, I've been hobby welding for over 30 years and I just got my mig about 2 years ago. Previously it was ALL stick.

Glenn.

 

[scopx]

Concerning the comparison between stick and mig, if the mig has the beans ~400 (amps) and sufficient wire speed, one can take it to full axial flow and there is no sound at all as wire is vaporized before contact with the metal. But due to the amperage, this type of welding can only be done in the flat position as pool can be 1/2 wide or better. It usually requires a heat shield on torch hand gets some kinda hot pretty quick.
Yeah, one can get the same heat levels with a stick, but with a mig you can keep on truckin.
Cold weld problems are due to operator error, not the type of unit.
I have both mig and stick. The 160 mig gets used 5 to 1 over stick as my general usage is not that heavy stuff.
Am now looking for, and eventually will be getting a Tig unit as need to fab some alum lifting strakes on pontoon boat. And will see if can (fill) rebuild an alum head just for grins.

 

[Kubota 2350]

You should be able to find a good used AC/DC Lincoln Tombstone for the 275 your looking at spending, they are a bullet proof machine.