Chains Loader Lifting: Chains vs. Ropes

[glennmac]

If you can rope a bull, why not a FEL.

There is much disussion here about lifting things with a FEL with chains. There is even a very lengthy discussion of what kind of hooks to use for the chains and where to place them.

What's wrong with ropes (or straps)? Sailors and mountaineers entrust their lives, equipment and livelihoods to ropes. I'm not opposed to chains, but they are clanky and scratchy, plus I have ropes/straps.

Here's my thinking. My loader can lift a max at bucket center of 880 lbs. There are plenty of mountaineering and marine ropes that have a working strength far in excess of that. Plus, I'm never going to lift anything with just one strand; there will be a minimum of 2, and probably 4, supporting strands.

Thus, breaking would not seem to be an issue. And ropes are easier to manipulate, tie off, release and store. There must be a flaw in my thinking, however, if experienced tractormen use chains.

"Unchain my FEL." -- Ray Charles, circa 1959

 

[ERNIEB]

From one who has seen it done, I can tell you that putting a rope on a bull ain't that much of a deal. It's what you do with him after you have your lasso on him, that becomes a problem. The problem with ropes is they are made from a variety of materials and are subject to various degrees of decay, wear, stretching, and so forth. In the occupations you mention weight is probably a factor. I've never done it but, if I was hanging from the side of a mountain I think I would rather be attached to a good strong chain.
Most of the people on this board seem to be safe operators, but since this subject has been brought up I thought I might add something. I don't know if this has been brought up before, but one thing I see alot around in my area is the picking up of big round bales with a regular bucket, and chaining the bale to the bucket. Once that bale is up in the air, something breaks are comes loose, the bale comes rolling right down to the operator. Very dangerous, but I see it being done all the time.
Ernie

 

[Bird]

glennmac, I don't see a thing wrong with using a rope instead of a chain, so long as you know what you're doing, i.e., strong enough rope, knots tied properly, rope that's not going to stretch, not run across a sharp edge that might cut it, etc. I do it occasionally, but most of the time it's quicker to hook a chain link in a hook than to tie a knot.

Bird

 

[gerard]

glenmac - I ditto bird (AGAIN!) and I think you can use rope safely. I use chain and nylon straps. The only downside to rope is the abrasion factor, sunlight deterioration, the knotting/securing issue and the stretch issue. Now loader lifting isn't too bad, if it brakes you drop your load. If, however, your pulling something from your drawbar do you really want to use what becomes a big rubber band ready to spring back and whack you in the head when it breaks? I guess since chain can be used in either application I find it easier to keep chain on the tractor rather than rope. Also because it's stronger compared to it's size I can store more on the tractor.

 

[DVerbarg]

Glennmac,

Ropes and straps are strong enough to use for lifting. The main advantage of a chain over a rope is the ease of untying after lifting. I used to use ropes but would end up spending too much time untying a knot in the rope that tightened while lifting the heavy object. The chain with hooks was much faster.

Straps with hooks can be used but the hooks tend to tear the strap material after a few months of use.

DaveV

 

[hayden]

I too have used ropes in the past and prefer chains for the following reasons.

1) It's real quick to attach chain and adjust the length with hooks. Using rope I found it more difficult to get things adjusted properly and spent more tie and untie time

2) Chains are quick to get off. Just lift the link out of the hook. I found that dragging logs and lifting heavy loads would pull my knots so darn tight that it took quite a while to get them undone.

3) Chains don't stretch. For most work, I find this a benefit. The rope I used, including non-stretch mainsheet line from a sailboat, still stretched more than I would like.

In all these cases a rope will certaily work, I just find chain easier.

Where I DO like rope is for providing tension on a tree when felling it. I get the rope around the tree as high up as possible and the pull it tight and tie off against another tree to provide pull in the desired direction. Here the spring is a big benefit. I also use them to guide a tree's fall so it can't go somewhere unpleasant. Again, then spring is nice in that use too.

 

[Mike H]

One fundamental difference between chains and ropes/straps has to do with a form of potential energy referred to as potential energy. Whether you're pulling on a chain, cable, or rope; it stretches. You probably can't notice it with the chain but with the right measuring instruments it's easy to measure. When you load any of these things (rope, chain, cable, strap), you're putting the same amount of strain energy into them. IF that energy ends up so large that the lift device breaks there is a fundamental difference in how they behave. Simply put, because the cable/strap/rope is essentially a single component with comparitively low stiffness, it flies all over. A chain, which is made up of many comparitively high stiffness components, won't fly all over. This isn't an issue if it doesn't break (although stretching could be).

 

[glennmac]

Mike, you seem to be making a point that could relate to safety, but I really don't know what you mean by "fly all over". Could you be more specific as to how the chain will behave differently than the others after a break.

 

[gordon]

I also have ropes, straps, chains and wire rope. Each has it's own use and some can be switched use wise as well.

By the same token if you use a regular climbing rope to climb a tree the abraision of the tree bark can actually burn the outer covering off and weaken the rope. So for different uses there are different ropes. When climbing a tree I use arborplex 150' length is my standard and thats usually long enough for the climbing that I do. If a tree has a bad lean that I don't think I can drop just by wedging I use a twisted nylon line has good strech to tension the tree. But I don't use them for dragging logs or moving things. Rope can rot or break down from the inside out. The dirt can load up on the inside and then abrade the line.

For dragging and lifting I use chain and some wire rope. Not saying it's better but thats what I use. Just think where the sailors do use chain---anchor line why---helps to give the anchor a better set with the added weight of the chain in soft ground but also the abraision factor. Thats the reason for 10-20' of chain at the end of the anchor line.

There is no doubt that the rope would be plenty strong but if it draggs across the bucket edge under tension you could slice it pretty quick. Whereas with chain the worst you could do is bend a link if it were lighweight chain.
Be careful
Thats my two cents worth
Gordon

 

[DVerbarg]

Glennmac,

Mike's comment regarding potential energy is right on. A chain will react differently than a rope due to the amount of stretch (I forget the correct physics term /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif) before the break

Consider a rubber band. If you pull the rubber band far enough (potential energy) to its breaking point the rubber band will spring back to its original size (fly all over-ouch!). If you have a string with the same breaking point (in force) it does not stretch as far before breaking and will not have as far to travel to spring back to its original size, thus less "fly all over". If you had a small chain with the same breaking point it would have even less stretch than the string or rubber band, even though they all had the same rated breaking point, and would then not have as far to travel when springing back to its original size.

This lack of stretch is than an obvious safety issue. Chains do break and do spring back as Mike mentioned. I've seen tractors fenders severly damaged from a chain snapping back towards the tractor when used for pulling and leaving indentations in tractor fenders due to using under sized chains.

Hope this helps clarify things (and not muddy them /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif).

DaveV