Looking at a 165

[Southtowns27]

Hey all, I'm going to look at a Massey 165 next week. I'm somewhat familiar with the machines (my old man has a '72 135), but I'd like to know if there are any specific things I should look out for. The machine has 7,000 hours on it, it's a diesel, and a multi power. I need something that'll run a snowblower and haying equipment. I know my dad's 135 is a tick small for what I'll be doing so this 165 seems ideal. It's at the local AGCO dealership (who I've dealt with before many times) and they're asking $6200 for it with new rubber on it. They'll also take my current tractor (Allis Chalmers WD45) on trade. Does the price seem off the mark? Any suggestions are appreciated!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Unless it's a real gem, that's a tick high on price. They're generally worth around $5000 to $5500 in near mint condition. Gas worth a bit less. New rubber makes it a better deal, but 7000 hours is a good bit on an original condition tractor.

Look at MultiPower.... Make sure it works. Check under tractor for oil leaking from weep holes under bell housing. If you see transmission oil there, turn and run. Engine oil may be rear oil pan gasket. Make sure lift works (with some weight on hitch) smoothly. Check steering for play. Check front axle center pivot. Check PTO & it's clutch. Can be a problem on MultiPower units.

 

[Southtowns27]

Thanks for the reply, I thought the price was a bit high too...
As far as testing the multi-power, how exactly is it supposed to work? I'm guessing it's like an IH torque amplifier, but i'm not sure..
Also, what if the lift doesn't work perfectly smoothly? My dad's 135 "chatters" a bit as the lift is approaching the end if it's stroke. Is that normal or a bad thing? What problem arrises with the PTO and clutch on the multipower models?
Sorry for all the questions but I really don't want to get burned....

 

[flusher]

Thanks for the reply, I thought the price was a bit high too...
As far as testing the multi-power, how exactly is it supposed to work? I'm guessing it's like an IH torque amplifier, but i'm not sure..
Also, what if the lift doesn't work perfectly smoothly? My dad's 135 "chatters" a bit as the lift is approaching the end if it's stroke. Is that normal or a bad thing? What problem arrises with the PTO and clutch on the multipower models?
Sorry for all the questions but I really don't want to get burned....

I second what FWJ says. He da man on MFs.

I paid $3600 in July06 for a 1964 MF-135 diesel with multipower and 4600 hours.
The 165 is a larger tractor but not worth $6200 even with new rubber.

The final production year for the 165 was 1974. In 2008 the average trade-in value for a 165 of that vintage was about $2200 and the average retail price was around $4600 according to the blue book.

The new rubber somewhat offsets the really high hours on the 165 you're eyeballing, but IMHO you should set your upper price limit around $5000 and try to make a deal around $4500.

Just be prepared to do some wrenching yourself. My 135 is in my shop now to replace the leaking pto seal and for a pto clutch adjustment. If I can't adjust that clutch to get the pto to shift into gear, I'll have to split the tractor and do a clutch rebuild. I also have to troubleshoot an oil leak somewhere on the bottom of the engine.

Fortunately, my 135 is more of a hobby tractor than a must-have-running working tractor. My 2008 Mahindra 5525 is the tractor I rely on for haying. It sounds like you will be relying on that 165 quite a bit. So I'd be careful putting good money on a 30-40 year old tractor with high engine hours.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks for the reply, I thought the price was a bit high too...
As far as testing the multi-power, how exactly is it supposed to work? I'm guessing it's like an IH torque amplifier, but i'm not sure..
Also, what if the lift doesn't work perfectly smoothly? My dad's 135 "chatters" a bit as the lift is approaching the end if it's stroke. Is that normal or a bad thing? What problem arrises with the PTO and clutch on the multipower models?
Sorry for all the questions but I really don't want to get burned....

On MultiPower; Start out in low range, shift to hi. It SHOULD make a nice, smooth, FIRM shift. Shift back down to low. Shift should be smooth, but not QUITE as firm feeling as low to hi. Neither should have any delay, noise, or jerking. Low range will freewheel on downhills. That's normal.

That chattering isn't "normal", but so long as it isn't too severe, or getting worse, it's not all that serious. Often can be "cured" with hydraulic oil/filter change. Check lifting ability using position control lever as usual, and then check lifting ability using draft control lever. Inability to lift HEAVY loads with draft control isn't abnormal, and CAN be adjusted to allow such.

PTO on MultiPower tractors is hydraulic actuated Independent pto. Problems can arise with issues involving MP pump (separate from main hyd. pump) or slave cylinder actuating pto. Make certain pto engages and disengages as it should. Best if you can test with implement attached to pto shaft.

 

[Southtowns27]

Thanks again for the replies..
About how many hours can I expect to get out of one of these tractors(average)? I know the Perkins is cheap and easy to rebuild, but what about everything else? Does every multipower explode at 7100 hours? How is the service life of the clutches in these things?

 

[George2615]

I agree with the others that $6200 is high and if that's what they offered including your trade they're giving you nothing for yours and getting top $ for theirs. I also agree that FWJ is the man to ask any questions pertaining to these tractors.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Thanks again for the replies..
About how many hours can I expect to get out of one of these tractors(average)? I know the Perkins is cheap and easy to rebuild, but what about everything else? Does every multipower explode at 7100 hours? How is the service life of the clutches in these things?

MultiPower is as reliable as any hi/lo shift tractor of it's era. Lifespan depends on a certain percentage of luck and a larger percentage of how it was treated over the long haul. I've seen instances where it's still going strong @ 15,000 hours.

The engine is perfectly capable of going 10,000 hours without major work, again, depending on how it was treated way back when. Lots of 100 series tractors still working hard with 10,000 or more on the clock. That said, I just sold a 135 that I had to put a re-man engine in. Original was trashed with less than 2000 on the clock. I paid next to nothing for the tractor. It had been tortured all it's life. It was a "one owner" tractor, but had literally hundreds of operators over the years. (Used in a boat yard)

My 150 still has the original clutch. Almost no measurable wear. It's been adjusted ONE TIME in 38 years. (1971 model, 3300 hours of gentle use)

 

[Southtowns27]

Well I went and checked it out.. Doesn't seem too bad really. The MP shifts firmly with no noise at all. All the gears work, brakes are really good, posi works. It has a couple small fuel leaks, one at the fuel pump, one at the injection pump. Neither seem like a big job to fix. I checked the weep holes under the tractor. There's no engine oil at all, but 2 or 3 drips of hydraulic oil. Is this something to worry about yet? I snagged the shop mechanic at the dealership and he said it could be the front tranny seal starting to weep. He's been there for 40 years and said just run it. Is it a big job to change after the tractor is split? I'm a heavy equipment mechanic so it really doesn't scare me too bad... I also got ahold of the previous owner. He bought the machine brand new back in the 70's. He traded it in on a newer machine and said he actually wants the old 165 back. The engine was rebuilt sometime in the late 80's and it got new clutches along the way. Speaking of clutches, Farmwithjunk mentioned something about the MP pto being hydraulically operated, but this machine has a 2 stage clutch just like my dad's 135. You have to push the pedal all the way to the runningboard to engage the PTO. Does this make sense? The previous owner also said the machine really never worked very hard, mostly just towed wagons around and occassionally ran a planter. He also said the hydraulics are good and strong. The machine has a factory remote on it. We also put a test gauge on it and it showed 2500psi...the mechanic said that's where it's supposed to be. It all seems to check out good... After haggling a bit with the dealer, he said he'd take my WD-45 on trade and $3900 for the 165. It seems like a much better deal now. I can probably get him down a bit more too. What's everyone think now???

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well I went and checked it out.. Doesn't seem too bad really. The MP shifts firmly with no noise at all. All the gears work, brakes are really good, posi works. It has a couple small fuel leaks, one at the fuel pump, one at the injection pump. Neither seem like a big job to fix. I checked the weep holes under the tractor. There's no engine oil at all, but 2 or 3 drips of hydraulic oil. Is this something to worry about yet? I snagged the shop mechanic at the dealership and he said it could be the front tranny seal starting to weep. He's been there for 40 years and said just run it. Is it a big job to change after the tractor is split? I'm a heavy equipment mechanic so it really doesn't scare me too bad... I also got ahold of the previous owner. He bought the machine brand new back in the 70's. He traded it in on a newer machine and said he actually wants the old 165 back. The engine was rebuilt sometime in the late 80's and it got new clutches along the way. Speaking of clutches, Farmwithjunk mentioned something about the MP pto being hydraulically operated, but this machine has a 2 stage clutch just like my dad's 135. You have to push the pedal all the way to the runningboard to engage the PTO. Does this make sense? The previous owner also said the machine really never worked very hard, mostly just towed wagons around and occassionally ran a planter. He also said the hydraulics are good and strong. The machine has a factory remote on it. We also put a test gauge on it and it showed 2500psi...the mechanic said that's where it's supposed to be. It all seems to check out good... After haggling a bit with the dealer, he said he'd take my WD-45 on trade and $3900 for the 165. It seems like a much better deal now. I can probably get him down a bit more too. What's everyone think now???

A drop or two of hydraulic oil is nothing to worry about. Good chance using it some will help. MANY (most?) of the MP tractors had IPTO, but a fair number also had 2-stage clutches. All things equal, I'd rather have the 2-stage version. Most 100 series with 2-stage need to be clutched all the way to the running board to disengage pto clutch. That's normal. Clutch adjustments are a breeze on those tractors. Hydraulic pressure sounds about perfect. Splitting a tractor isn't too tough. If you're a mechanic, it'd be a quick job with the right tools. Get the manuals (Owners, service, parts) from MAssey Ferguson, EBAY, ect......Easy to find. The 100 series tractors are EXTREMELY "servicable" and easy to work on. PArts are easy to get if you need them.

I'd be all over that deal. The 165 is a really great tractor. (IMHO, one of the most under-rated tractors of it's size/age) WD45's were good tractors, and they'll have no trouble finding a buyer. If you can negotiate an even better price, go for it. But if that's the best they can do, I'd still jump on that one.