Looking for my next lawn/garden tractor, possible electric conversion

[macindude]

Hi all,

I'm looking for my next tractor. Help me find it! I'm also interested in possibly getting one that has a blown engine but is otherwise OK, and converting it to electric as a DIY project.

I have a 2 acre lawn with lots and lots of trees including some wooded area, and a 180-foot driveway with sections as wide as 35 feet. Currently, I have a late-90s model Simplicity Legacy with a 60" deck, turbo blower/bagger, and 46" single-stage snowblower. I also have a small trailer I sometimes use for yard work.

Things I want:
1) Ease of attachment swaps. This is the primary consideration. I'd love to be able to go between a snowblower and a front rotary broom in a couple of minutes, for example. I also don't want to have to use a jack to lift attachments up to where I can pin them on any more.
2) 3-point hitch, solely to grow my attachment collection.
3) Front end loader - And it needs to be easy to take off/on, as well as swap between bucket, grapple, pallet forks, or whatever else I want to throw on it.
4) Good at mowing, vacuuming up leaves/grass clippings, and blowing snow! These are still going to be my primary uses for it.

So far, I've mainly been considering the John Deere 1025R, which I think is what I really want but seems to be very pricy... And a couple of backup options:

John Deere 1025R. Pros: Seems like JD is the best at attachment swaps, with the auto-connect mower, the front quick connect, and the ability to unpin the bucket from the FEL and pin other things on. "Load and go" mower deck attachment to FEL for cleaning, maintenance, and storage is really nice. Cons: Mower is attached to tractor frame and doesn't "float" nor stripe. Snowblower does not have chute rotation or elevation from the seat by default, which is hard to believe for a tractor of this level. Green paint is expensive. Mower deck raises and lowers with 3-point standard (as opposed to with a separate control). I've heard JD doesn't want maintenance done by users and doesn't publish service or parts manuals.

Newer used Simplicity Legacy XL. Pros: I have a lot of familiarity with Simplicity, good mowing, easy to get service and parts manuals for both tractor and attachments. Cons: Not as much of a 3rd party market for extras as with JD, parts availability may become an issue going forward, FELs and other less common attachments are harder to find.

Other things I've considered:
JD 2210/2305: ROPS doesn't fold, so it likely won't fit in my garage and definitely won't fit under some of the trees I need to mow under.
JD X7xx series: FELs are rare and sometimes incompatible, 3-point hitches are uncommon.
JD X4x5/X5x5 series: Same as X7xx, and I don't believe the attachments are particularly easy to change on these older tractors either.

If anyone has a lead on any of the above with a dead engine at a good price, I'd certainly be interested.

 

[5030]

Go find yourself an old Electrak electric tractor for sale and replace the (I'm sure shot batteries) with new ones and be happy. They come with all the attachments you want (and list) and recharge from a 110 volt power supply.

Not something I'd want but I'm sure someone wants them (like you).

The last thing on my want list would be an electric tractor. I put that up there with McDonalds hamburgers.....

 

[macindude]

Go find yourself an old Electrak electric tractor for sale and replace the (I'm sure shot batteries) with new ones and be happy. They come with all the attachments you want (and list) and recharge from a 110 volt power supply.

Not something I'd want but I'm sure someone wants them (like you).

The last thing on my want list would be an electric tractor. I put that up there with McDonalds hamburgers.....

Well, the ElecTrak is just too small IMO. I think the mower deck is only 42". That's a big step down from a 60".

And part of this is to find the best *tractor* to start with. I'm still going to run it on gas/diesel at the beginning.

When I first started thinking about this, I was thinking I'd start by replacing the engine, fuel system, etc with one big motor and a bunch of batteries, followed by putting in motors on the hydraulic pump and PTO, followed by electrifying attachments. However, now I think I've got that backwards. If I start by throwing a bigger alternator on first and electrifying the attachments, the machine won't be down as long early on, and I could do them piecemeal. Hydraulics and PTO could come next, and then by the time I get rid of the engine, I wouldn't need a big honking motor that could take the load of everything.

 

[2manyrocks]

Some random thoughts about this are that there is a big difference between the garden tractors vs subcompact or compact diesel tractors in terms of 3pt attachments and ease of attaching front mounted snow blowers. It's probably not so easy to substitute an electric motor in place of the diesel engine on many subcompact tractors. Is there any uniformity in how the hydraulic pumps are mounted? I suspect you'll find more proprietary mounting patterns with diesel tractors than garden tractors that are powered by small gas engines.

If you were going to do this conversion, you might look at some of the older case 442(?) garden tractors that had small gas engines powering hydraulic systems that ran the tractor. It might (?) be easier to substitute an electric motor in place of the gas engine.

The disadvantage is the Case was made in the early 1970s. Parts may be hard to find.

In terms of modern tractors that can still be purchased new that are hydraulic system based, you might look at getting a Power Trac PT 425 that basically has a 25hp kohler running three hydraulic pumps for the steering, power propulsion, and PTO. There's actually a used PT 422 on the PT website with some implements including a snow plow that needs an engine replacement that is priced at $2,500. Used Power Tracs

Other than that, I sometimes see recent model electric riding mowers for sale for cheap I suspect because they don't have the run times people expected and the cost of replacement batteries is too much for them.

 

[macindude]

Some random thoughts about this are that there is a big difference between the garden tractors vs subcompact or compact diesel tractors in terms of 3pt attachments and ease of attaching front mounted snow blowers. It's probably not so easy to substitute an electric motor in place of the diesel engine on many subcompact tractors. Is there any uniformity in how the hydraulic pumps are mounted? I suspect you'll find more proprietary mounting patterns with diesel tractors than garden tractors that are powered by small gas engines.

I don't mind proprietary mounting, I'm pretty much expecting that this project will require some design and CNC work to get motors mounted in the right places.

What do you see as the "big difference" between garden tractors and SCUTs in terms of attachment mounting? There seem to be a lot of similarities between the JD X7 series and 1 series *if* the X7xx has a 3 point and FEL. That is a big if, of course, on the X7 series but practically a given on the 1 series. Is that what you're referring to?

If you were going to do this conversion, you might look at some of the older case 442(?) garden tractors that had small gas engines powering hydraulic systems that ran the tractor. It might (?) be easier to substitute an electric motor in place of the gas engine.

The disadvantage is the Case was made in the early 1970s. Parts may be hard to find.

Yeah, most likely. I'm hoping to do this conversion to a relatively new machine - Preferably something made in the last 15 years or so. The conversion won't be worthwhile if the rest of the machine is falling apart and hard to maintain. The closest thing I've seen to what I'm really looking for was a 1025R that had a huge tree fall on it, but unfortunately there was likely a lot of other damage to fix up on that one - It takes a lot of force to squish an engine.

I guess the real reason I'm not finding what I want - a 1025R that needs an engine - is that those little diesels are too reliable!

In terms of modern tractors that can still be purchased new that are hydraulic system based, you might look at getting a Power Trac PT 425 that basically has a 25hp kohler running three hydraulic pumps for the steering, power propulsion, and PTO. There's actually a used PT 422 on the PT website with some implements including a snow plow that needs an engine replacement that is priced at $2,500. Used Power Tracs

That's an interesting idea. Unfortunately it looks like that one must have sold already, I'm not seeing it there.

Other than that, I sometimes see recent model electric riding mowers for sale for cheap I suspect because they don't have the run times people expected and the cost of replacement batteries is too much for them.

Thing is, I don't think anyone actually makes a SCUT-sized one yet. JD keeps teasing the 1RE and I keep getting emails about how they're coming out with something like that, but then they're hawking their electric zero turn that's already out.

The other stuff I've seen is too small - Usually around 42" decks - and I haven't seen anything that's really done well yet. I'd bet you're right about run times, but I bet nobody has bothered to replace a battery yet.

Unfortunately, most companies try to just "make something electric" rather than "make a good product that happens to be electric". Look at the EVs from the early 2010s - They were pretty much all ugly as hell, terrible (sub-100-mile) range on a good day, little "it"boxes until Tesla came along to show them how it should be done. That's where we are with tractors today - Everyone is going to make a junky electric tractor and say "look at us, we're green" out one side of their mouth while saying "nobody wants to buy electric tractors!" out of the other side. No, nobody wants to buy YOUR junky electric ones... All it takes is one company doing it really well to move the whole industry, but I'm not thinking Tesla has any plans to join the tractor market.

 

[2manyrocks]

IMO, garden tractor implements are typically like those made by Brinly. Brinly Residential Lawn Care and Garden Attachments They are usually much lighter than 3pt implements for tractors because the garden tractors themselves usually weigh 500-800 lbs I'd guess and can only handle so much weight when it comes to attachments.

You might be able to find an International Cub Cadet or Gravely mower from the 1970s with a bad engine for cheap along with some implements. The Cubs were tough little tractors, but there really isn't a drop in replacement for the old cast iron K series kohler engines that they were equipped with. The rest of the tractor was pretty much indestructible. People walk away from them when they start having engine trouble and can't just replace the engine easily.

I would suspect it would take a pretty substantial battery to power a 1025r sized electric tractor.

The PT422 apparently sold. It's tough to find a used power trac.

 

[oldnslo]

Have you considered steiner or ventrac. They are both hydraulic drive but I believe both use proprietary implements. Both 4 wheel drive and articulated steering.

I believe you will find most hydraulic pumps follow a standard for mount and shaft.

 

[macindude]

I would suspect it would take a pretty substantial battery to power a 1025r sized electric tractor.

You know, I've been wondering what that would look like, so let's go through the process of making an educated guess.

My most frequent use is to mow. Even when the grass is pretty thick, I can easily mow my two acres twice on 5 gallons of gas with the Legacy and 60" deck, and that probably takes 2.5 hours total (1.25 each time on average), or about 2 gph. When I add the blower and I'm sucking up cl, it's probably closer to 4 gallons. So, let's say 2.5 gallons for lighter use and 4 gallons for the heavier use, but I'm taking longer and driving around more... Although it seems like that takes about 2 hours total, so still 2 gph so we'll go with that.

The actual energy content of a gallon of gasoline is about 33.7kWh, but the engine is going to be maybe 25% efficient. So, that means in an hour, I'm using roughly 17kWh. I would want the machine to be able to run for two hours without recharging.

These students did an electric conversion of a 2025R last year:

Going with the same thing they did, they used Nissan Leaf cells and made a module of 10 of them in series. They only put one actual module on their tractor, but said that they could fit four of those modules. It looks like each cell is about 0.3kWh, so 40 of them is 13kWh... Which isn't enough, at face value.

However, that's part of the reason I want to take this to the next level. I don't know as much about the 1025R as I do about my Legacy, but I think they're roughly similar - The engine drives a PTO via some belts, to which a driveshaft is attached, which goes to a gearbox, which goes to another pulley that drives the deck belt and finally the blades. That's a lot of friction losses. So, removing all of those mechanical bits and putting a motor on each arbor would reduce the energy requirements to some extent, possibly enough to make it work for my uses.

Another thing I would like to do, though, is to add additional packs. The John Deere 3-point weight bucket is big enough to have eight additional modules, or another 26kWh. That's more than enough to handle my worst day. Ideally it would be able to be picked up by the 3 point, the FEL, or the front quick attach system so that it's easy to pick up and use as ballast wherever you might need it. You could also have one pack charging and another in use to allow for constant operation.

Oooh... I just found some Tesla batteries. Looks like those are more like 60kWh in the same amount of space as the Leaf ones were 26kWh. That is a game changer... That means 30 kWh on the tractor, or probably 2 hour runtime without carrying any additional batteries, and 4 hours additional for the battery bucket pack.

 

[mikester]

What's the motivation for electric conversion?

Get the biggest diesel tractor you can afford.

If you are trying to be more environmentally friendly considered cutting less lawn. 2 acres is a lot of grass in our quest to parody the english country estate.

 

[2manyrocks]

You might look at how Solis is building this all electric tractor. New Solis SV24 All Electric tractor