Looking to buy a tractor

xtech · Sep 22, 2023

Hello Everyone,

i am looking to buy a small and cheap tractor for small farming (basically, a 100x50 meter yard).

Constraints:

Between 20 and 30 HP
4x4 Traction
Power Steering (called Hydraulic, i guess?)
Narrow enough (less than 1,40 meters wide)
Can be used... number of years is not important but has to be reliable
I live in Portugal near the border with Spain, the brand is not relevant but i want to be able to get spare parts easily
Price < 8000€

Besides normal farming tasks (plowing, etc) i would also like in the future to mount a small backhoe loader behind to help me to model the yard terrain features and plant some trees.

I have the chance to buy at a Massey Ferguson 210-4 with 24Hp for 6000€, but has no power steering.
I have also been looking to Hinomoto 250D, but seems the brand is not well known and there is no data online about it

I have also seen the brand new Solis and Avenger tractors which go a little bit above my budget (but being new, i could think on increasing the budget a bit) with 25-26HP whic i believe they are Indian, and some opinions about them are not the most flattering, especially regarding the gearbox problems and engine failures. I also don't know about spare part availability

Is the Massey Ferguson 210-4 my best option?

Fuddyduddy1952 · Sep 22, 2023

5000 square meters=1.2 acres.
Is it flat or hilly?
I would see what people in your area have and see what local tractor dealers in your area. I wouldn't want to buy any attachment for one time use.

xtech · Sep 22, 2023

The terrain is quite flat.

Indeed, the terrain is small, but the vegetation grows like crazy there and i want to plant some assorted fruit trees and vegetables for self consumption, including potatoes.
I also want to put some curbs (that's also why i want the backhoe loder) to delimitate the path to a garage there and make some terrain adjustments.

My parents use to do also agriculture as a secondary occupation besides their main jobs (my parent has actually two tractors: a New Holland 40hp and 17HP Kubota), and i've grown quite fond of "trustable" and chemical-free food.

Maybe a tractor may seem a bit overkill for such a small piece of land, but doing everything by hand is not feasible at all for me.

jeff9366 · Sep 22, 2023

This currently running thread will answer many of your questions:

Newbie trying to nail down type & brands

Greetings All, I'm here to learn, & seek advice. We will be moving rural, just a small almost 2 acre lot. We will most likely be purchasing used & within 150-200 miles of SW PA. I am trying to narrow down what would work best for me/us & have read here for a few years while I dreamt of getting...

www.tractorbynet.com

Fuddyduddy1952 · Sep 22, 2023

A local dealer helped me choose the right one. That may be your best choice as well as availability of parts and service.

Torvy · Sep 22, 2023

@ptsg. This sounds right up your alley or neck of the woods or whatever English idiom works!

ptsg · Sep 22, 2023

Xtech, I assume you have check the usual places, like OLX and Custo Justo?

Basically, you have two options. If you plan on driving on the roads with the tractor, you'll need one with license plate and title. If you plan on work just inside your propriety, you can get away without the title and license plate. The second option, pretty much cuts the value of a tractor anywhere from 50% to 75%, that's why you find them a lot cheaper.

Personally, I recommend that you go with the first option. Leaves a lot more options open in the future and also holds the resale value a lot better. And if you feel like, you can just drive it to the market to get vegetables or even feed for any cattle you may or may not have.

Often, the tractors without license plate/title, are imported and come on a container filled to the brim. The price range is usually anywhere from €2500 to €4500. The issue with these tractors is that they are usually models used in the Asian market and not anywhere else in the world, so parts becomes an huge issue and often requires buying another used tractor just to harvest parts. These brands are usually: Kubota, Iseki, Hinomoto, some Mitsubishi models, Yanmar, Shibaura and maybe one or two more. I had a Kubota B7000, so I know bit on this subject. It was a pain to get a simple clutch disc back in the day.

With that budget, it'll be a bit hard to find a 25HP tractor with power steering though. I believe 9500€ gets you the Solis S20, 20HP, power steering and some more nicer features.

Another point, since you're considering having a front loader, I'll suggest that you stay away from the isodiametric (articulated) tractors, like Antonio Carraro, Goldoni, and some more, while this type of tractors are awesome, specially on hilly ground, they are not really loader friendly at all.

I have about 6500 square meters at home. I owned a 14 HP tractor before and now a much bigger 35 HP one. I can honestly say, the 20 to 25HP is about the perfect size.

I'll check some online places and see if I can find anything that may suit your needs, once I get a little bit of time.

EDIT: Every once in a while, a Same Solaris 25 or Lamborghini Runner 250 appear at fairly decent price, usually around 9000€. These are great tractors and since they sold loads of them, plus being European brands, they have great parts availability.

xtech · Sep 22, 2023

@ptsg thanks a lot for the post! Great points! Great to see other portuguese fellows around.

Yes I have been checking OLX mostly, and have already seen a couple of tractos from there in person.

Definitely i want to have a licence plate on it - it is a must. I want go go refuel it to the gas station, or to the mechanic for service and not having the risk of getting fined.

Ok, so i'll avoid these brands. The Solís looks very Nice visually, but how easy is to get spare parts for it? Are they reliable? I didnt know the brand a couple of months ago... If it's a Ford, new Holland, John Deere, Lamborghini, Goldoni, ir is easy to get parts.

Thanks for the advice, i Will discard then these Carraros - i've always found then a bit "strange" anyway!

I Will like to have not really a front loader but one of these:

Yes i AM considering that HP range: between 20 to 25hp too!

Thanks you for the help!! I'll definitely keep and eye on these Same and Lamborghinis - they seem the right dizem!

ptsg · Sep 22, 2023

Great call on going with the license plate one. It's just a piece of mind.

I would expect the parts availability of the Solis to be fairly good. After all, they have been the number 1 seller in tractors up to 25hp for maybe 5 years straight. I would expect them to have the parts logistics figured out.

After a quick search on Facebook marketplace, I've found a couple options:

- SAME SOLARIS 25 - 1232 Hours with a Joper rototiller + brush cutter - 10000€, located in Ourém. Looks good, just a few cosmetic stuff here and there. Normal from the age.

- Kubota B2410 - 1600 hours - 9250€, No power steering though. Located in Batalha

- SAME SOLARIS 25 - 2077 hours - Looks very nice and well taken care of. Definitely stored in a garage. Located in Rio Maior and asking 9800€.

- SAME SOLARIS 35 - 35Hp model, looks good. Don't know the hours though. 9000€ in Pampilhosa da Serra.

There is also this Ferrari 40HP, doesn't list the actual model. Located in Coruche. Fantastic shape but no price.

I hope it helps. I'll keep my eyes open.

koshari · Sep 22, 2023

xtech said:
@ptsg thanks a lot for the post! Great points! Great to see other portuguese fellows around.

Yes I have been checking OLX mostly, and have already seen a couple of tractos from there in person.

Definitely i want to have a licence plate on it - it is a must. I want go go refuel it to the gas station, or to the mechanic for service and not having the risk of getting fined.

Ok, so i'll avoid these brands. The Solís looks very Nice visually, but how easy is to get spare parts for it? Are they reliable? I didnt know the brand a couple of months ago... If it's a Ford, new Holland, John Deere, Lamborghini, Goldoni, ir is easy to get parts.

Thanks for the advice, i Will discard then these Carraros - i've always found then a bit "strange" anyway!

I Will like to have not really a front loader but one of these:

View attachment 822782

Yes i AM considering that HP range: between 20 to 25hp too!

Thanks you for the help!! I'll definitely keep and eye on these Same and Lamborghinis - they seem the right dizem!

if you do go the backhoe route get a sunframe made up, they put a LOT of load on the superstructure otherwise.

ptsg · Sep 22, 2023

koshari said:
if you do go the backhoe route get a sunframe made up, they put a LOT of load on the superstructure otherwise.

The backhoes sold here are often undersized (mostly run at lower hydraulic pressure) for the tractor they are going to, plus they tie the backhoe to other points of the tractor in addiction to the 3 pt.

ning · Sep 22, 2023

I would strongly think about the backhoe option, as it tends to be very expensive. Consider if the amount of digging will be often enough that renting a mini-excavator - assuming that's available locally - would be inconvenient, as they tend to be much better diggers.

My personal calculus here was that I need to dig often enough that the avoiding the inconvenience and time loss to get and return a rented digger outweighed the cost of the backhoe, and I was willing to spend more up front than I'd likely pay in rental fees in over the course of five years for that convenience (I can put the backhoe on the tractor in less time than it takes to drive to town, let alone return with the digger and then return it later - assuming that the digger is available on the day I want to use it).

Torvy · Sep 23, 2023

Ptsg probably has the best insight into that as well. Do they have a robust rental market in Portugal?

I agree, unless you have annually recurring need for backhoe or a very strong need for control, backhoes are better rented as needed where available...as in mini -ex, not an attachment.

ptsg · Sep 23, 2023

Torvy said:
Ptsg probably has the best insight into that as well. Do they have a robust rental market in Portugal?

I agree, unless you have annually recurring need for backhoe or a very strong need for control, backhoes are better rented as needed where available...as in mini -ex, not an attachment.

So, here in Portugal, and pretty sure the rest of Europe too, you need like a training course to operate any construction equipment. It's basically a training course done in X amount of hours (don't know the exact number). In the end, you get a little card with the course info and the approved stamp, almost like a driving license card.

With this being said, the rental places can only rent machines to whoever has this course done. Or they have to rent the machine + operator which will only increase the costs further more.

For the OP, buying a 3 pt backhoe is the way to go. He can work whenever he wants and feels to without being dependent on others availability. These backhoes often appear in the used market around 3000€ to 4000€ and can often get exactly what he paid for if he decides to sell it.

K5lwq · Sep 23, 2023

Welcome @xtech to TBN! I am glad you have ptsg available to give good advice! I look forward to seeing what you end up buying and seeing some of your work! Best of luck!

xtech · Sep 23, 2023

ptsg said:
For the OP, buying a 3 pt backhoe is the way to go. He can work whenever he wants and feels to without being dependent on others availability. These backhoes often appear in the used market around 3000€ to 4000€ and can often get exactly what he paid for if he decides to sell it.

Yes, that is what i think too!
And the best part is that i can do things exactly the way i want.

ptsg said:
the rental places can only rent machines to whoever has this course done.

I didn't know that. Well, one more reason to buy a backhoe. I haven't done the course yet, but i intend to do it in the future when i have more time available.

Today i'm gonna see this:

The price is nice enough (5700€), it has a licence plate and i have researched and there is a portuguese representative, so spares should not be a problem, i guess. The low price makes room for the backhoe and some other implements i would need.

But i need to know first if it has power steering. Other than that, everything seems to fit. One mistrust: the paint shines like new... i guess it was repainted. I hope it wasn't a quick fix to cover rust...

If the deal is not good, i'll probably consider buy a new Solis, after what you said. Maybe the 26 or 26 XL, there is a gread promotion where they bundle 5 implements with it, thus saving me some money.

xtech · Sep 23, 2023

K5lwq said:
Welcome @xtech to TBN! I am glad you have ptsg available to give good advice! I look forward to seeing what you end up buying and seeing some of your work! Best of luck!

Thank you @K5lwq! Indeed, he has already been of great help! The decision on a new tractor will be taken in the next 2 weeks, as i cannot postpone it much further. I'll keep you guys posted about it!

ptsg · Sep 23, 2023

xtech said:
Yes, that is what i think too!
And the best part is that i can do things exactly the way i want.

I didn't know that. Well, one more reason to buy a backhoe. I haven't done the course yet, but i intend to do it in the future when i have more time available.

Today i'm gonna see this:
View attachment 822834

The price is nice enough (5700€), it has a licence plate and i have researched and there is a portuguese representative, so spares should not be a problem, i guess. The low price makes room for the backhoe and some other implements i would need.

But i need to know first if it has power steering. Other than that, everything seems to fit. One mistrust: the paint shines like new... i guess it was repainted. I hope it wasn't a quick fix to cover rust...

If the deal is not good, i'll probably consider buy a new Solis, after what you said. Maybe the 26 or 26 XL, there is a gread promotion where they bundle 5 implements with it, thus saving me some money.

I can see the steering linkage on the right side in the picture and doesn't have power steering. Also, the Hinomoto Portugal representatives are only for the new models which are actually TYM tractors painted in orange.

The older Hinomotos are very hard to find parts, unfortunately.

If I were to buy a new tractor now, the Solis S26XL would be at the very top on my list along with the Kioti CK2630 (more expensive) and the Farmtrac FT26.

xtech · Oct 14, 2023

Hi again! So i've done business already. And the selected was..

New Holland Boomer 25... used with 700 hours on the clock. I hope i've made a good choice and its use reliable enough. It hás a Mitsubishi 26 HP engine.

I am now searching for a small backhoe. NH has One that i fell on love with it but for some reason i cannot find its price anywhere and i dont know if it fits the Boomer 25:

ptsg · Oct 14, 2023

xtech said:
Hi again! So i've done business already. And the selected was..

New Holland Boomer 25... used with 700 hours on the clock. I hope i've made a good choice and its use reliable enough. It hás a Mitsubishi 26 HP engine.

I am now searching for a small backhoe. NH has One that i fell on love with it but for some reason i cannot find its price anywhere and i dont know if it fits the Boomer 25:

Congrats on the new tractor. It's made by LS but you can get parts both ways, either New Holland or LS if you end up needing.

For the backhoe, you won't be able to find that model "in this side of the pond" and it's only meant for the US market. You'll find something very similar though, just different brand and paint.

If you can, I suggest that you get one with sideshift on the boom if you can find it for that size of tractor. This is a great feature because you can then often the arm one way or the other so you don't have to dig with the arm right in front of you, blocking the view. It also allows you to dig close to a wall. Plus, you can ofset it to one sid and fold the arm all the way, making for very compact setup.

Either way, you'll need counterweights for the front of the tractor.

Some examples for mini tractors: