Mark, question abt Amsoil ATF+4

[Billc]

Mark, I've been reading about every back post at the TDR. Someone told me that Amsoil has come out with an ATF+4. Just wanted to get your feed back on it.

I will go all Amsoil in the Dodge in 2 weeks. However I keep hearing not to go synthetic in the auto trannie. One of the people I spoke with was Mark at TST Products. He said it was best to stay with the DC ATF. Again, I keeping hearing that from others as well. Can you give me any feed back on the Amsoil in the trannie?

Thanks for any info, as always.

Bill Cook

 

[MChalkley]

Bill, are they giving you any reasons, or just advice?

I don't know much about the automatic tranny's. I do know that a friend of mine was having trouble with high temps with his, but he put Amsoil in it and the problem went away. No other effects that he's aware of.

Mark

 

[Billc]

As to reasons, I've been hearing it has something to do with the Dodge's electronics in the trannie. No one has really given a really hard answer. I know you must hear "Well I know this fella who had a friend that knew this guy who had problems with a synthetic." alot. No hard evidence just gossip.

We are heading to Louisville next week after I finish tweeking the truck. Can't wait to see how the new and improved Dodge pulls the 5th wheel.

As soon as we return I'm going all Amsoil. Also want to ad a bypass filter, spray in bed liner, and something in the rear end that will help support the weight of a 14,000# trailer.

I know you pull a big load. Do you have an air system on your rear springs that inflates when you are hauling heavy, and then deflates when you are doing normal highway driving? Since my wife drives this truck to work everyday, I don't want to make the suspension stiff. I just need it stiff when I load up the trailer.

Do I get the award for being most off the topic on this board?

I'm thinking of going by Paul's on my way to Louisville and see how his Surburban likes the smell of diesel smoke

 

[MChalkley]

Billc - I'd call Amsoil and ask them what they've heard. They're biased, but they'll tell you the truth. For example, my 6-speed New Venture tranny requires a particular Texaco lube. I called Amsoil and asked them if they had a product that would match it and they said they didn't have anything that fits the same specs.

Mark

 

[Billc]

As always, Mark, thanks for you knowledge and patience with my questions.

Bill Cook

 

[PaulB]

Uhh Bill, let me talk to the wife please. If you are going from Georgia to Louisville via New York, I think maybe she ought to be doing the driving.

 

[Billc]

PaulB, was wondering if you were going to see my little...ummm...err...dig. It seems I have a problem with geogrophy. I keep thinking you are in North Carolina...which is still not on the way to Louisville.

When I was in School in Mass, I dated a girl that went to Ithica. You live in a beautiful area, Paul. Before I moved up to the northeast for school this Southern boy thought all of New York State was concrete. Y'alls accents aren't bad either...though I did regularly hear people ask, "Wherrrr u frummmm? Lisonn tuuuu hiiiimmm tallllk." What's funny is I sold vacuums door-to-door to put myself through school...the accent got me in a lot of doors. Think the longer I was up there the thicker my accent got!

Mark, didn't get a chance to call Amsoil yet, had to work in my Father-in-Law's pawn shop the last three days, but will Monday.

 

[Rowski]

Billc

As an automotive technician I can say that that Chrysler (as a whole) in their newer vehicles use a special dextron fluid. Originally it was called type 7176, then went to ATF +3 and I think the new stuff is called ATF +4 (not 100% sure about the +4 just remember reading something in a service magazine). The difference in the fluid from Dextron III mercon to the the ATF +3 is friction modifiers. I do not know how the modifiers effect the friction. But I do know the using the wrong stuff can cause a hole bunch of problem including different shift characteristics, chattering of the clutches during shifts, torque converter lock-up chatter, and possibly tranny failure. I an not suggesting you don't use synthetic just research it really well. If you do use something else other than OEM and you notice anything different about your tranny shifts replace the fliud right off. Remember that just dropping the pan for a fluid change you will be lucky to only replace 1/3 of the total fluid. This is a lot of fluid left in the torque converter and the oill cooler lines. If you want you could (depending on space) get two aftermarket tranny oil coolers and plumb then up in series in front of the radiator (or condenser if you have a/c). When doing this put the coolers after (in terms of circulation) the OEM coolers. Try this link and it will give you some more info. I have used their additive in out plow vehicles and it helped.

http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/index.html

Good luck, hope this helps and please let me know what you ended up doing.

Derek

 

[Billc]

Derek, thanks for the info. I am being very careful and asking lots of questions before I change my ATF. Lots of my questions have gone to Dodge owners with auto trannies who use Amsoil ATF.

Appreciate the advice.

Bill Cook

 

[W5FL]

Since this subject is already off topic...

Is there any way to get most of the fluid out of an automatic transmission? My old Ford had a drain on the Torque Converter, but the Jeep Cherokee does not show one in the manual. I seriously considered just changing the fluid, warming it up, draining it, and doing that a couple more times. The cost of fluid is pretty cheap compared with transmission problems.

I consider special fluids required as a FIX for a defective design! Buy a different automobile. Chrysler products look a whole lot better, now they need to work on the mechanical systems. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[Rowski]

wen,

Snap-on makes a machine (I beleive it is called transtech) you hook into series in the cooler line. Snap-on claims it removes 100% of the old fluid and replaces with the new fluid. I have hear that it really works well but pretty expensive to buy(at least for our small shop). That is really the only easy way. Usually on our own trucks we replace the fluid once sometimes twice a year regardless of mileage. To make it a little easier we insatlled a drain plug on the pan.

As for the Chrysler products their mechanical system it should be improving with their recent merger with Mercedes Benz. I know you can see some the german thought going into their recent new cars. I hope that the germans rub off on the truck and SUV lines especially the work trucks.

Derek

 

[Rowski]

Re:Life expectancy of tranny fluid

I found one of my automatic transmission text books from college. It has a chart titled

Life expectancy of transmission fluid as operating temperatures are increased

operating temperature Operating mileage
175F 100,000
195F 50,000
215F 25,000
235F 12,000
255F 6,000
275F 3,000
295F 1,500
315F 750

It doen't say but most likely this is for dextron mercon fluid. I would be curious to see a chart with synthetic.

 

[Billc]

Re:Life expectancy of tranny fluid

O.K. after lots of research I've decided to stay with the ATF +3 fluid in trannie. I think Amsoil would do a better job but when I drain the trannie fluid, just like I was told above, I only get out about 1/3 of the ATF, a bunch is left in the torque converter, cooler, and lines. Mixing the two trannie fluids doesn't hit me as a good idea. But, when I have the trannie rebuilt (whenever it fails) I'll replace the torque converter and bands with after market products. Will also go with Amsoil ATF then.

Appreciate the input, fellas.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

If you want to get ALL the ATF out of your tranny, you are going to have to take it to a shop with a flusher machine, they are too expensive for the home mechanic ($2500+) However, there is the "hillbilly flusher" method which will change most of the fluid. Unscrew one of the lines at the cooler in the rad. Have an assistant briefly start the vehicle, just long enough to determine the flow direction. You want to detach the "return" line and install a fitting into the cooler with a short hose attached.(hint: short 5/16" brake line for most GM and older Ford) Drain the pan, but don't change the filter yet. Reinstall pan, and dump in 4-5 qts of fluid. Have assistant start vehicle and run hose into a bucket, adding fluid to tranny as it is pumped out. When it starts coming out clean, stop engine, drop pan, and change the filter. Replace pan, lines, etc. and refill. Be warned, most trannies hold at least 11 qts total, so figure at least 18+ to get a decent flush. Same basic process as a flusher, but takes more ATF.

 

[Billc]

Slimsummers,

I was surprised to see this post pop back up. Thanks for the info.

Just to update (Sorry I know this really belongs on the TDR board): I did not go to Amsoil ATF. There were too many questions I couldn't answer. I stayed with the Dodge ATF. Took my 5er out west for 2 months in Aug. and Sept. On my way home, just out side of Bozeman, MT. my trannie let go. I had 93K on the truck. Went to a good trannie shop in Bozeman. Flushed the trannie cooler, stayed with Dodge ATF, had the trannie rebuilt, went to a better valve body, and put in a Sun Coast Proloc torque converter. This winter I will take the Dodge to a trannie shop, flush the trannie cooler again, go with Amsoil ATF, and that's about it.

I do thank you for the info about replacing the trannie fluid.

 

[Zoe]

Bill, Ran across your post on Amsoil ATF and Dodge transmissions. I have ran it in Dodges, Fords, GM products for years and it covers Dextron 1-3-Mercon- and all forion car trans fluid specs. If you pull a trans hard like I do sometimes 4 ton on the back you find that synthetic keeps the fluid aprox 500 degrees cooler and the fluid lasts 50,000 miles compared to being burned up at 12,000 miles. I am running it in a couple large Allison trans 5 speeds automatics and have 145,000 on one with out any discoloration on the fluid at all. The best way to get all but a couple qts out of the trans is to unhook the pressure cooler line from the radiator and start vehicle and it willpump most of it out without any damage at idle. I hook a rubber hose to the line with a pan underneath. gary

 

[Billc]

Thanks, Gary, I will switch over when I get my shop finishied in a month or two.

Bill Cook