Massey FE 35 with Perkins - CAV Starter Problem

[Mike324]

Hello, Perhaps more experienced Massey owners can help. I would appreciate it. I changed a leaking gasket on the fuel injector pump and after that my Massey, with Perkins, 1962 made, 1963 sold I believe, Ser. number 222900, would not start. I thought it probably needed to be bled, but I thought it sounded like it might catch, so I worked the starter pretty hard. I realize now that I should not have done that. I bled the locations stated in the manual, but now the starter will hardly turn the engine over, and I am noticing some smoke coming from it. I must have overheated it. I have checked the battery since recharging and it is charged fully. I even tried to boost it with my truck and still it does not not turn over very fast.

It would appear I need a new starter which would be a Delco replacement, according to the local suppliers, which has a solenoid on top, or have the original CAV rebuilt. The original CAV from England that I have does not have a solenoid on top.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Is the solenoid located inside the CAV starter?

2. Any guesses as to what damage I may have done?

3. Would I be better to have the CAV rebuilt or go with the Delco replacement?

4. Is rebuilding an option, given that the internal parts may be now obsolete, or is this something that a reputable shop should be able to do?

I will hit the road soon to take it to some shops, but I thought I would ask the gents and ladies on this forum first as you folks are the ones with experience. Thank you very much, Mike

 

[rScotty]

I generally recommend rebuilding an original starter if you have a good auto electric shop nearby.
Most starters just need brush and commutator work plus the points renewed on the solenoid.

But the exception to an easy rebuilt is when they are overheated. Starters have a lot of closely packed windings in both the field coils and the armature coils. Lots of windings are what make starters powerful.

Each winding is separated from its neighboring winding by a coat of baked-on varnish. A starter doesn't have a very good way to get rid of heat and as it gets hot the varnish burns off and the windings can short out. Then two windings become one, and power is that much reduced. Even more, the reduced windings also have less resistance so the starter coil can overheat more easily the next time. Eventually it is no good. The only cure is to rewind it.
I have heard of people rewinding starters, but anymore it is only on high dollar classic cars. Expensive hand operation.

It doesn't matter where a solenoid is, unless it is the type which not only switches on the high current to the field coils, but also engages the starter pinion gear. However, any replacement starter for a particular model has to have some way to engage that starter pinion into the flywheel and given that feature, they all work equally well.

It wouldn't hurt to ask at a reputable auto electric shop. They might have an old CAV starter that has just the parts you need. Every shop I know of has a mountain of old starters for parts. So it is worth a try just for the "keep it original" aspect.

But it it were mine and I knew of a Delco starter that would bolt up and engage the starter properly that would be fine by me. On replacement starters I would either get a rebuilt from a reliable starter shop or buy new. Either one is equally OK, but I would NOT want a no-name rebuilt starter.

BTW, fuel injector pumps are incredibly easy to mess up. Get the pump professionally rebuilt.
good luck,
rScotty

 

[m7040]

there are If I remember right two bleed fittings on the side of the injection pump that needs to be bled in addition to bleeding through inlets to the the injectors. I had similar problems but after bleeding the pump it started right up.

 

[Mike324]

Thank you rScotty for the valuable electrical advice. I understand the situation much better now. I would like to keep it original if possible, so will reach out to the local shops first. Regarding the injector pump, yes I will not touch that. I just changed the gasket on that small side door.

Thanks m7040 for the bleeding information. I think I have bled it correctly. Yes there is the filter fitting, two bleed fittings on the side, and the injectors lines also. This is what the manual shows.

Thank you both for your time, Mike