massey135 stalling

1956mjg · Jul 13, 2013

Hi, new here from NE Montana, I've had a Massey 135 for 10 years, it has been a great little tractor, I mainly use it for cultivating tree rows and a little snow removal. This last winter it started stalling out. it always starts right up and will run good for a few minutes then lose power and stalls out. If i pull the choke out and throttle down it will idle. I brought it to the shop and they put a carb kit in, new cap, rotor, and condenser plugs and points and fuel filter. It seemed to run fine so I drove it over to my muffler shop and had a new muffler put on and brought it home. It ran good for ten or fifteen minutes then started stalling again. If I let it cool for a while it will run again for a few minutes. It will run if i pull the choke out but does not have much power. Would any of you have an idea what could be causing this?

Thanks. MG

DaButcher · Jul 13, 2013

May be vapor locking, hopefully "the kid" will chime in and tell you his remedy.

BobG_in_VA · Jul 13, 2013

First Blush, its starving for fuel.....which gas engine is it...ie. does it have 3 or 4 cyl? Have you taken the fuel line connection loose at the carb? You may have enough fuel going to it to ride around, but once load is put on engine, it starves out....? get a bright flash lite and look in the fuel tank, see if there is any "crud" on the bottom of the tank that can close of the fuel outlet. good luck BobG in VA

The kid · Jul 13, 2013

1956mjg said:
Hi, new here from NE Montana, I've had a Massey 135 for 10 years, it has been a great little tractor, I mainly use it for cultivating tree rows and a little snow removal. This last winter it started stalling out. it always starts right up and will run good for a few minutes then lose power and stalls out. If i pull the choke out and throttle down it will idle. I brought it to the shop and they put a carb kit in, new cap, rotor, and condenser plugs and points and fuel filter. It seemed to run fine so I drove it over to my muffler shop and had a new muffler put on and brought it home. It ran good for ten or fifteen minutes then started stalling again. If I let it cool for a while it will run again for a few minutes. It will run if i pull the choke out but does not have much power. Would any of you have an idea what could be causing this?

Thanks. MG

As Bob mentioned it sounds like fuel starvation. It could be a dirty tank. As mentioned you need to check fuel flow coming from the tank. Another possibility is the fuel tank cap vent is stopped up or no longer venting. The fuel to the carb is gravity fed. Loosen the cap and see if it still quits after 15 minutes. Did the shop guys put a fuel filter on it? If so it could be too close to the exhaust manifold and heating it up enought to boil the gas out of it. Is this a Continental or Perkins engine? What all work was done? Post some pictures of the carb and fuel lines.

Ohh Almost forgot. Welcome to TBN.. -kid

1956mjg · Jul 14, 2013

It's a three cylinder engine, Perkins? I have loosened the cap, seemed to do no good, I am definitely not a mechanic and the loader frame makes it difficult for me to work around the carb.[ which is why i sent it to my mechanic in the first place]. I will check the location of the filter and for crud in the tank. I don't think it is filter location because it ran great for ten years and all of a sudden it started to stall.

TYhanks guys, Mike

1956mjg · Jul 14, 2013

Hi again, just got back in from fiddling with the 135, The gas tank looks good, they took it off when they worked on the tractor, no sign of any sediment in there at all, of course I can't see the spot where it drops into the sediment bowl. there has never been any crud in the sediment bowl since i have had the tractor. The fuel filter is basically right at the carburetor, not close to a heat source. I took the gas line apart at the filter and there seems to be a steady stream of gas coming. i had it idling [very roughly] and kept messing with gas lines and even tried adjusting the mixture screw on the carb with no change. I was scratching my head for a couple minutes when all at once it started to run good. I hopped on and started to plow a tree row. After a couple minutes it started to sputter again and would quit under any power.If it were an actual engine problem it wouldn't run well at all, would it? I will go pay my mechanic his bill and ask him for suggestions also. Everything he did needed to be done anyway I guess.

Jerry/MT · Jul 14, 2013

As soon as it starts to sputter, get off and check the spark. pull the center wire from the coil secondary out of the distributor cap and check the spark by holding it near a good ground and trying to start. You shoud see a FAT, BLUISH WHITE SPARK, the color of lightning. If you gave that then the chances are high your primary ingition circuit is fine. If you don't have the requisite spark you need to find out why (point setting not correct, burned, oily, or dirty points, burned ignition switch, high resistance in the primary circuit, etc). Richer mixtures are ignited more easily by weak sparks and pulling the choke out enriches the mixture.

I would also check the advance mechanism to make sure that the spark is advancing when you throttle up. Perhaps the breaker plate is sticking ot the advance weights are. You'll need a timing light for this.

If you have a good spark, then there is most likely something limiting your fuel flow or you have an improper fuel/air ratio. It's also posible that something is restricting or limiting your fuel flow. Next time it sputters IMMEDIATELY get off and check for full flow to the carb. If there is a bowl drain on the carb, open it and holding a can underneath it to catch the fuel, observe the fuel. It should CONTINUOULY stream out for as long as you let it run. If it dribbles or is intermittent you have a restriction in the fuel delivery system. look for signs of water or crud in the fuel youcatch in the container.Beside putting a kit in the carb, did your mechanic thoroughly clean the carb? The best kit won't help a dirty carb.

You said it seemed to idle better when you pulled the choke out a it. That could indicate too lean an idle mixture. I don't know what carb you have but I would try enriching the idle mixture an eighth of a turn at a time and see if that helps.

The other possibiity is that you have an air leak around the carb metering section that's causing an overly lean mixture. Take some starting fluid it and CAREFULLY spray around the throttle shaft, the carb to manifold connect flange, the cylinder head to manifold connection. if the engine speeds up when you spray at a particular point, you've found your air leak. Also examine examine the intake manifold for rust holes or cracks.

The kid · Jul 15, 2013

As Jerry mentioned check the spark immediately after it stalls. No spark. It could be the coil breaking down. Also check all your plugs wires to see if connections are clean.

1956mjg · Jul 17, 2013

one more question, gentlemen. I replaced the coil, didn't do any good. I have spark, It won't stay running hardly at all now after it warms up. Should gas run out of the carb plug even when it's not running? There is no flow at all once the carb is drained. I seem to remember I had that plug out and gas would run out when it wasn't running.

super55 · Jul 18, 2013

1956mjg said:
one more question, gentlemen. I replaced the coil, didn't do any good. I have spark, It won't stay running hardly at all now after it warms up. Should gas run out of the carb plug even when it's not running? There is no flow at all once the carb is drained. I seem to remember I had that plug out and gas would run out when it wasn't running.

If it is a gravity fed system than even when the tractor is off you should still be able to get a steady stream of fuel from the drain valve on the carb bowl. Most of these old tractors have a fuel shutoff valve on the supply line to keep gas flow to the carb when stored and yes they should be used when put away for the night.

If it stalls and you crack the drain valve on the bowl and there's no fuel coming out than most likely you have a stuck needle valve on the carb. It's probably not dropping all the way and the fuel can't fill the bowl fast enough to meet the demand of the engine.

I'm guessing the reason you can keep it running with the choke out is because your tractor is starving for fuel and choking it is restricting the air enough to get it to smooth out but you are loosing power due to reduced fuel/air to the engine. Pull the carb, drop the bowl and inspect the needle valve to see if it is dropping enough to allow an adequate amount of fuel to fill the bowl.