MF 135 Perkins Gas 3 Cylinder Backfiring no Power

[ultrarunner]

I don't know your engine but engines I work on the distributor meshes with the camshaft.

It looks like something foreign got between the two gears?

If luck is on your side the pieces dropped to the bottom of the pan and the gear on the cam is ok...

Worked on a lot of flatheads and found well worn but never broken dist drive gears.

 

[DJ54]

I'm like Ultrarunner, all I've worked on the distributor is driven off the camshaft. Shavings under the distributor cap would lead me to believe the rotor button was catching on something, but enough to shear the teeth on the distributor gear..??

Are those gears pot metal/aluminum designed to be the weak link in the system to prevent damage to the camshaft? Hopefully someone familiar with the engines will chime in here soon. I looked up the distributor through AGCO and it shows that gear held in place by a 1/4" X 11/16 pin. If it was catching that bad, I'd have thought it would have sheared the pin, or split the gear before stripping it.

Don't know if the link will go through to the page with the distributor :https://parts.agcocorp.com/us/en/apbsearch?q=masseyferguson/651199/l&name=135+TRACTOR# But looks like the gear is around $178.

***Link just opens as far as the 135 tractor itself. You'll have to drill down through the menu to find the Perkins gas engine, then on down to find the distributor.***

 

[big bubba]

OP: looks like you have the patience & tenacity to repair your engine. glad you found the culprit. good advice given here as well... suggestion once repaired: i highly recommend using only ethanol free fuel in your machine.
might be a good time to adjust the valves as well, regards

 

[ScipioUSA]

I think me pulling the distributor cap must have been the straw that broke the camels back.

I pulled the distributor and you can clearly see that the gear is all chewed up.

View attachment 831560

I am assuming the distributor goes into the crankshaft, do I need to worry about the gears in there?

Thanks!
Stuart

Well, I was going to respond to your first post that the backfiring probably had a little something to do with the timing, and looks like your further troubleshooting has confirmed it.

From your last video, it looks like there is some damage to the drive gear (the one in the engine). Is that just metal shavings from the damaged distributor gear? Or is it actually damage? It looks like the distributor is driven off a stub shaft that threads into the governor, so the good news is that you dont need to pull your camshaft out if the internal shaft is damaged.

At a bare minimum you need a new distributor gear, and you would want to pull that apart to see if you can rebuild it (or get it sent to be rebuilt). You might be able to find a rebuilt or new distributor that could mesh, assuming the gear still in the engine isnt completely damaged.

Remanufactured Distributor fits Massey Ferguson 135 150 521189M91 fits Delco Remy 1112457

Distributor for Massey Ferguson Tractor(s) 135, 150. Replaces Delco Remy Mfg Number(s) 1112457, Replaces Massey Ferguson OEM Number(s) 521189M91.

www.tractorpartsasap.com

The bigger thing is what got in between those gears to cause the problem in the first place?

While you troubleshoot, you might want to put something over that hole so that you dont accidentally knock dirt or other stuff down in there...

 

[slhilbert]

Well, I was going to respond to your first post that the backfiring probably had a little something to do with the timing, and looks like your further troubleshooting has confirmed it.

From your last video, it looks like there is some damage to the drive gear (the one in the engine). Is that just metal shavings from the damaged distributor gear? Or is it actually damage? It looks like the distributor is driven off a stub shaft that threads into the governor, so the good news is that you dont need to pull your camshaft out if the internal shaft is damaged.

At a bare minimum you need a new distributor gear, and you would want to pull that apart to see if you can rebuild it (or get it sent to be rebuilt). You might be able to find a rebuilt or new distributor that could mesh, assuming the gear still in the engine isnt completely damaged.

Remanufactured Distributor fits Massey Ferguson 135 150 521189M91 fits Delco Remy 1112457

Distributor for Massey Ferguson Tractor(s) 135, 150. Replaces Delco Remy Mfg Number(s) 1112457, Replaces Massey Ferguson OEM Number(s) 521189M91.

www.tractorpartsasap.com

The bigger thing is what got in between those gears to cause the problem in the first place?

While you troubleshoot, you might want to put something over that hole so that you dont accidentally knock dirt or other stuff down in there...

I found the part on Ebay and paid $125 for it, so way cheaper than the one linked thankfully. Not a lot of options online for it. Right now all the wholes are covered as I wait for the parts. I will see what it takes to dig into the engine more... I did read that the distributor gear needs to be inserted at precisely a certain position and I am wondering if it wasn't and that is the culprit.

Thanks!
Stuart

 

[slhilbert]

I'm like Ultrarunner, all I've worked on the distributor is driven off the camshaft. Shavings under the distributor cap would lead me to believe the rotor button was catching on something, but enough to shear the teeth on the distributor gear..??

Are those gears pot metal/aluminum designed to be the weak link in the system to prevent damage to the camshaft? Hopefully someone familiar with the engines will chime in here soon. I looked up the distributor through AGCO and it shows that gear held in place by a 1/4" X 11/16 pin. If it was catching that bad, I'd have thought it would have sheared the pin, or split the gear before stripping it.

Don't know if the link will go through to the page with the distributor :https://parts.agcocorp.com/us/en/apbsearch?q=masseyferguson/651199/l&name=135+TRACTOR# But looks like the gear is around $178.

***Link just opens as far as the 135 tractor itself. You'll have to drill down through the menu to find the Perkins gas engine, then on down to find the distributor.***

Thank you so much for the link to the parts... The diagrams alone on there worth their weight in gold. The Perkins 3 Cyl. Gas isn't so common from what I have found so being able to see all the diagrams is amazing!

I was able to find a new/old stock distributor on eBay for $125 so it has been ordered.

Thanks so much!

 

[ScipioUSA]

I found the part on Ebay and paid $125 for it, so way cheaper than the one linked thankfully. Not a lot of options online for it. Right now all the wholes are covered as I wait for the parts. I will see what it takes to dig into the engine more... I did read that the distributor gear needs to be inserted at precisely a certain position and I am wondering if it wasn't and that is the culprit.

Thanks!
Stuart

Glad you found one at a discount! You might want to make sure you have good points and a good condenser in it before you install it. I have the Blue Streak part numbers if you want them, since I have the Perkins Gas in my MF20. (I know your pain on finding info, this is not a super common engine it seems)

It would be unlikely that it would have moved positions on you if all of the bolts were tight. There is a thrust washer under the end cover (the little triangle cover that is near the distributor), so pulling that cover might show you if something had moved out of where it should be.

If you dont have one, might be worth getting the service and parts books from agcopubs . They arent too expensive, and save a lot of heartache. The parts you can see online from the link DJ54 sent you, but I also like a hard copy for looking at in the garage sometimes.

 

[George2615]

I found the part on Ebay and paid $125 for it, so way cheaper than the one linked thankfully. Not a lot of options online for it. Right now all the wholes are covered as I wait for the parts. I will see what it takes to dig into the engine more... I did read that the distributor gear needs to be inserted at precisely a certain position and I am wondering if it wasn't and that is the culprit.

Thanks!
Stuart

I'm sure at one time the dist. was installed correctly before the gear got chewed up. Before you install the new dist you will have to get the timing mark on the crankshaft damper pulley set to top dead center then install the dist. so it will be lined up to fire on number one cylinder. Once started you can fine tune the timing with a timing light.

 

[DJ54]

Thank you so much for the link to the parts... The diagrams alone on there worth their weight in gold. The Perkins 3 Cyl. Gas isn't so common from what I have found so being able to see all the diagrams is amazing!

I was able to find a new/old stock distributor on eBay for $125 so it has been ordered.

Thanks so much!

You're welcome. Many may not know most of the major equipment companies even know these parts pages are out there. Now that you know, feel free to pass this info on to others.

You'll find that using the OEM part number is the best way to search for a specific part and get the correct one.

 

[DJ54]

I'm sure at one time the dist. was installed correctly before the gear got chewed up. Before you install the new dist you will have to get the timing mark on the crankshaft damper pulley set to top dead center then install the dist. so it will be lined up to fire on number one cylinder. Once started you can fine tune the timing with a timing light.

TDC on the compression stroke.