Mid PTO speed

   / Mid PTO speed #1  

balsam

Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
35
Location
Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario
Tractor
Kubota 3430
I have a Kubota L3430 HST tractor and purchased a mid mount PTO for it. I was told the output RPM would be 1000 RPM. I just opened the box and, based on the size of the gears and shaft, I think it might be higher than that. They sure look pretty light to carry 30 hp at 1000 RPM.
Does anybody know what the RPM of the shaft will be if the engine speed is the 2550 RPM, which is the speed I run the engine at it get 540 at the rear PTO.
I should have asked this question before buying it, rather than taking a salesman痴 word for it.
Thanks
 
   / Mid PTO speed #2  
Most mid-ptos are 2200 - 2500 rpm. You will need a reduction gearbox, belts or chains to get the rpm, torque level or direction you need to run some attachments from it. Now you can run a snowblower, broom or mid mounted mower from it. I have an air compressor that i dare run at idle rpm from it. You need a special driveshaft to hook onto it, too. A small generator could be a cool project to have 'hanging around' underneath. They can be run direct at 1800 rpm.
 
   / Mid PTO speed #3  
Mid ptos are slightly different than front and rear ptos. Generally mid ptos are designed for equipment built by the manufacturer of the machine. Like mid mount mowers, brooms, snow blowers, etc. They often times have weird splined output shafts.

Rear and *most* front ptos are generally universal. Meaning the splines on the output are standard practice.

With that being said, you noted that it looked rather light.

First off, 540 rpm converts HP to torque. You'll get more torque off a 540 then you will with a 2500 rpm. 2500 rpm will give higher horsepower, but less torque. But you get the same amount of power. However, the 2500 rpm shaft doesn't need to be bigger.

To throw some maths out here... The relationship for a shaft driving something is simple: power = speed x torque (with the right unit conversions, of course.) So by increasing the speed, you can deliver the same power using less torque. 540/1000 = 0.54, or only 54% of the torque required to deliver the same power at 1000 RPM, vs 540 RPM.

Hence why if you look at the drive shaft of a 2500 rpm MMM, you'll see it's this tiny, puny little thing, compared to a 540 rpm rear mount drive shaft.

1000 rpm ptos are commonly found on larger 75+ HP tractors (and some smaller tractors as an option). Most of these are for mower conditions, hay balers, etc where they benefit from this "perfect" reduction. It also saves fuel and wear and tear.

Now in terms of your situation, I don't know if there is a 2500 rpm to 1000 rpm converter. I know there are 540 to 1000 rpm converters, but they incredibly expensive. You might as well use that as a down payment on a machine that has a 540/1000 rpm gearbox built in from the factory.

When I was working on the farm when I was a kid, we had two or three implements that ran on 1000 rpm. I remember having to pull the snap ring out and swapping output shafts. I also remember the time I got distracted and FORGOT to put the snap ring in.... the noise it made was horrendous. Luckily I didn't break anything.
 
   / Mid PTO speed #4  
Manual says Mid PTO is 2000 rpm.
 
   / Mid PTO speed #5  
2000 rpm is what I run my front mounted snow blower an that in general is a sweat spot for North East snow.
 
   / Mid PTO speed
  • Thread Starter
#6  
Thanks guys, very helpful information.
Wow! Diesel, you know your stuff. I came to the conclusion that it was more than 1000rpm because I didn’t think the shaft and gear sizes couldn’t handle the torque...right for a change.
Thanks for straighten me out.
 
   / Mid PTO speed #8  
Nope. They can either be clockwise or counter clockwise. Also each gearbox can have it's own spline arrangement. So good luck finding an "aftermarket" driveshaft.

I'm kind of surprised that manufacturers haven't taken more advantage of high flow hydraulics. It would solve this issue with mid pto stuff, especially with the quick attach on these newer loaders.

I can't see where it would be advantageous for a manufacturer to make all these different sized attachments that run off a specialty mid pto, when they can make one model with hydraulic motors that can service many. I see so many questions asked on here about the Kubota front mount snow blowers, even variations in the SAME model number (A's and B's, etc) and what they are compatible with. Most of the time those letter variations in the model number refer to the mid pto shaft length.

Then I guess their argument is, the initial pump/transmission will be more expensive when buying the machine. But at least offer it as an option for those than want it/can afford it.

Would love to see a B or BX with high flow hydraulics and capability to run appropriately sized skid steer attachments. Then again, most SS attachments run in the neighborhood of 1000 lbs. So getting beyond that hurdle might be difficult to keep the price low for general consumers in the lower end models.

It would be neat to have a hydraulic motor operated mid mount mower... imagine no belt, no tensioners to worry about. Just have three motors, one for each blade. I think that is much simpler than worrying about designing a custom involute spline drive shaft, custom gearbox, belt, pulley arrangement, etc. That there alone in engineering would save money.
 
   / Mid PTO speed #9  
the problem with that is that this gearbox and drive shaft technology is 50-80 years old and the engineering has long been paid for. these newer hydraulic setups require larger capacity hydraulic systems with more expensive components (open vs closed center) and are just not in the price point of the consumer market.

we have to be honest you and I would think it was cool and may be willing to pay extra for it but we are only 2% of the market.
 
   / Mid PTO speed #10  
[QUOTE=jonsstihl; these newer hydraulic setups require larger capacity hydraulic systems with more expensive components (open vs closed center) and are just not in the price point of the consumer market.
we have to be honest you and I would think it was cool and may be willing to pay extra for it but we are only 2% of the market.

Hydraulics are also only about 80% efficient so less power available.
 

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