Milk House renovation

[riptides]

I am planning to turn my milk house into more usable space.

The first step was gutting the pipes and equipment out of it.

The inside walls are a concrete type plaster on top of some kind of wire mesh.

The floors are poured concrete. Circa 1920.

For the floors, I was thinking about a vapor barrier and a new sub-floor. That would mean raising the height of a door.

Another option would be a pour of a lot of self leveling concrete.

I think I am leaning towards a new sub-floor, due to the volume and ease of not working with concrete.

Thoughts?

 

[EddieWalker]

Pics would help, but just comparing what would be faster and easier to do, self leveling concrete is about as easy as it gets.

 

[riptides]

I am looking at a "drop" in the middle of the floor hitting close to four inches. This runs the length of the building.

What do you all think of the adherence quality of the concrete up against that old stuff?

I plan on installing plumbing too, so I am leaning towards a floor build up.

 

[EddieWalker]

4 inches changes everything. You wouldn't want to do that with self leveling for sure!!! I would hire it out if pouring concrete, but if you did that, you would want to raise the high side at least two inches, which doesn't have any advantages over building it up with wood. Seeing your picture, I think I'd frame it up level and put down plywood or Advantech subflooring.

 

[riptides]

4 inches changes everything. You wouldn't want to do that with self leveling for sure!!! I would hire it out if pouring concrete, but if you did that, you would want to raise the high side at least two inches, which doesn't have any advantages over building it up with wood. Seeing your picture, I think I'd frame it up level and put down plywood or Advantech subflooring.

Looks like I'll be pounding wood down!

Concrete on top of concrete, the self-leveling stuff....how does that hold up over time for flooring?

 

[EddieWalker]

After the original concrete is cleaned, a bonding agent has to be applied. Then some pins should be drilled into it to lock the new concrete in place and hold up the rebar. The existing concrete will make a great base. If done correctly, you would never know it wasn't original and it will be there for hundreds of years. But going with wood will be faster, cheaper and easier.

 

[tomplum]

I dunno, but that bulk tank might make a nice wine vat!

 

[newbury]

I am looking at a "drop" in the middle of the floor hitting close to four inches. This runs the length of the building.

What do you all think of the adherence quality of the concrete up against that old stuff?

I plan on installing plumbing too, so I am leaning towards a floor build up.

I'd go with the floor build up..
That pic looks exactly like my first job when my Dad hired me out to a local dairy farmer. The farmer gave me a broken hoe to scrape down the walls for repainting.

4 inches changes everything. You wouldn't want to do that with self leveling for sure!!! I would hire it out if pouring concrete, but if you did that, you would want to raise the high side at least two inches, which doesn't have any advantages over building it up with wood. Seeing your picture, I think I'd frame it up level and put down plywood or Advantech subflooring.

You've got plenty of ceiling height so I'd second that and go with Advantech. Then you can run plumbing under the floor.

 

[MossRoad]

In the garage on our first house, someone poured a 2" concrete floor over the existing concrete floor. We never knew it. The original service entrance door opened out. Every time we left it open, if we opened the overhead door, the service door would fly open and damage its hinges. One day, the wind whipped it so hard it snapped the door frame. We decided to replace it with one that opens in to resolve the wind issue, and it was more secure as well. That's when we found out we couldn't open a door inwards, because there was an inch of concrete sticking up blocking an inward swinging door. We'd never noticed it. The concrete was cracked in several places by the door, so I lifted one piece out and that's when I discovered the 2" pour on top of the original floor. I ended up getting a concrete blade for a circular saw and cutting a 3'x3' square out of the 2" floor to allow for the door swing inwards. There was just a little step there when you went in. It was OK for a garage, but I'd not do that for a high traffic area where changes in floor height can be a tripping hazard.

 

[riptides]

2X4's for flooring joists or 2X6? That is the question. Since they will be set on top of the concrete. Does size matter?

TIA

 

[EddieWalker]

Your joists are just really shims to level and support your decking, and since they do not span anything, you can use the smallest lumber you need. Spacing is more important. 24 inches apart is standard for 3/4 ply or bigger. I prefer 1 1/4 for decking, but it's more money and super heavy. You can also go closer together if you are going to have some heavy loads. 19.2 or 16 inches will only add a few boards to your job, but give you a lot stiffer floor.

 

[Egon]

The joists may not have full contact with the floor when level. Depends on the unsupported length of joist.

What clearance will you need for plumbing? (Joist height) ?
What will be the he future use?
Type of heating? (In floor) ??
Prevalent moisture in buildings?

Just questions to ask yourself.

 

[riptides]

The joists may not have full contact with the floor when level. Depends on the unsupported length of joist.

What clearance will you need for plumbing? (Joist height) ?
What will be the he future use?
Type of heating? (In floor) ??
Prevalent moisture in buildings?

Just questions to ask yourself.

Yes all valid.

Plumbing and heating are of no concern, the moisture question will have to be addressed.

It's a man cave. No just don't tell the wife.

Eddie I will make it stiff and able to support a nice pool table.

 

[EddieWalker]

Egon brings up a good point. While I doubt you will have more then a few inches where the 2x doesn't touch the floor due to irregular dips in the original floor, the more contact you have the better. After cutting, I would use liquid nails or something similar to secure the 2x's and shim any gaps you might have. Take the time to get it 100% solid now because you never will have this opportunity in the future, and a springy, or squeaky floor only gets more and more annoying over time!!!!

 

[Cord]

Looks like I'll be pounding wood down!

Concrete on top of concrete, the self-leveling stuff....how does that hold up over time for flooring?

Self leveling is pretty low psi stuff. I've seen it dust up at door ways before the rooms could be finished leaving a trench that needed to be filled. I would never recommend it be left unexposed.

If you raise the floor, you'll screw yourself on the doorway. Honestly, if you "need" the floor to be level, I'd bust it out and repour. This way you can hit your sill height and still have a flat floor.

I'd suggest funding this project by selling the bulk tank. The maple syrup guys will snatch it up for close to $1,000 this time of the year.

 

[riptides]

Self leveling is pretty low psi stuff. I've seen it dust up at door ways before the rooms could be finished leaving a trench that needed to be filled. I would never recommend it be left unexposed.

If you raise the floor, you'll screw yourself on the doorway. Honestly, if you "need" the floor to be level, I'd bust it out and repour. This way you can hit your sill height and still have a flat floor.

I'd suggest funding this project by selling the bulk tank. The maple syrup guys will snatch it up for close to $1,000 this time of the year.

The bulk tank went on the market twice in my general area. It since made an adventurist move into the barn. Part of me says it can stay there forever, or until my brewery days come calling again.

I have opted on raising the floor, and will raise three doors (one outside, two inside) in the process. Two other outside doors will be closed off and the building will be re-wrapped with vinyl. It's a lot of work, well not really, just a lot of busting out the old wet sheet stuff on the inside. I have worked in there already, repairing all the holes in the walls, and it has a fresh paint job. It use to be my laundry room as I was "remodeling" the farm house. LOL. A truly multi-use building over its lifetime.

 

[EddieWalker]

It should be easy enough to raise the height of the doors. A lot of old buildings didn't even have headers over the doorways. But if you are going to do it, might as well make it as strong as possible and put in new jack studs with a header.

 

[riptides]

It should be easy enough to raise the height of the doors. A lot of old buildings didn't even have headers over the doorways. But if you are going to do it, might as well make it as strong as possible and put in new jack studs with a header.

Yes, you are correct. And I will do just that.

These old buildings are built tough. Many a saw blade dulled and broken when working with the original wood.

 

[NormaMangels]

4 inches changes everything. You wouldn't want to do that with self leveling for sure!!! I would hire it out if pouring concrete, but if you did that, you would want to raise the high side at least two inches, which doesn't have any advantages over building it up with wood. Seeing your picture, I think I'd frame it up level and put down plywood or Advantech subflooring.

It looks great!

 

[smokinmad]

In a Barn....a raised floor will be Greatly Appreciated by every Barn Mouse and Rat.....I'm with CORD, bust it out and pour new.
As for the walls....That is called a Stuco Wall Covering and that vat would make a Nice Hot Tub in a Man Cave....