Grapple More grapple bucket questions

[BJJohnson]

Hello, new tractor owner JD 4120 with a 400cx loader in Southeast TX.

I am more confused now on the grapple bucket issue after a search on this forum. I have not decided on which particular bucket to purchase the dealers in my area carry several different brands, none of which have I seen listed on this forum.

My main question is the hydraulic hook-ups, my tractor did not come with any hoses at the rear of the tractor. I want a factory type look and installation such as the 3rd function hydraulic line kit with the control on the joystick. My local JD dealer does not seem interested or knowledgeable in this particular setup, they want to run hoses from the rear to the front with some sort of a valve and handle located on the right hand tractor fender. I went to the WR Long website and looked at the valve kit with the grapple function located on the joystick.

Can anyone please simplfy this whole concept for me.

 

[Willl]

I want a factory type look

I would go with the 3rd SCV kit from JD to connect into the unused valve that is already on your tractor. (part # LVB25513)

 

[3RRL]

tamarack just emailed me asking the same thing.
Here's what I wrote back to him.
Note he already has rear hydraulic lines in my reply to him.

The best option to control your grapple IMHO would be to use a true 3rd function solenoid valve such as can be purchased from W.R. Long. This allows use of your bucket controls (curl/dump, raise lower) and the grapple simultaneously if you have enough hydraulic flow. They also sell grapples but you can get the control package from them separately. It includes the new valve and joystick with a rocker switch that controls the electric over hydraulic valve. I think that would cost around $350 or so. You would have to mount it and also get hoses for the grapple.
Having said that, there are those guys that use their rear hydraulic remotes, or in your case your rear hydraulic lines to power the grapple. If you can control those rear hydraulic lines via an existing valve such as a rear remote valve, or if you can control the backhoe lines you have now, then all you would need is long hoses that run from there to the grapple. You would use the existing valve to control the grapple. I find that way much cheaper to do, but having to control the grapple in that manner might not be nearly as efficient as having a switch mounted on the joystick handle.
The other option is to get a diverter valve which would allow you to use the grapple in a similar fashion as the solenoid valve, but it blocks off one of the fel functions...usually the dump/curl. So you could control the grapple and raise/lower your fel but not curl until you switched back to dump/curl mode. Then your grapple would be out of play. This cost is also cheaper but closer to the true third function solenoid valve.
My recommendation is (of course) the true third function solenoid valve like the pros have for doing grapple work, but it is your choice of course.

The cost I gave you are ball parks and require self installation.
Here is a thread about my wife's grapple which I made from scratch and you can see the cost of the components I used for that. They are different than what I used on my tractor but more cost effective for the same features as mine.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/118499-my-very-own-grapples.html
Hope that helps you?

 

[IslandTractor]

The best option to control your grapple IMHO would be to use a true 3rd function solenoid valve such as can be purchased from W.R. Long. This allows use of your bucket controls (curl/dump, raise lower) and the grapple simultaneously if you have enough hydraulic flow. They also sell grapples but you can get the control package from them separately. It includes the new valve and joystick with a rocker switch that controls the electric over hydraulic valve. I think that would cost around $350 or so. You would have to mount it and also get hoses for the grapple.

I would agree that the electric over hydraulic is the best and most convenient solution but it costs considerably more than $350 in kit form from WRLong. Try something in the $800-900 range I believe.

The diverter valve is less (about $600 kit now from WRLong) while the rear remote option can cost as little as a couple of long hoses with fittings if you already have a rear remote or, if you don't have a rear remote installed then an additional $350 from Kioti or up to about $1000 for some JD/NH set ups.

 

[datamm]

Go with the John Deere rear 3rd SVC, then purchase the JD kit that goes with hard lines all the way from rear SVC to front of bucket. The two kits from my dealer cost approx 200 & 300 each. Then I have the Frontier Grappler bucket and could not be any happier. (as picture shows) On the right side not on green fendor but below where arm is to adjust 3 point there is blank slot (just below) there where the lever goes to adjust the 3rd SVC.

 

[3RRL]

I would agree that the electric over hydraulic is the best and most convenient solution but it costs considerably more than $350 in kit form from WRLong. Try something in the $800-900 range I believe.

The diverter valve is less (about $600 kit now from WRLong) while the rear remote option can cost as little as a couple of long hoses with fittings if you already have a rear remote or, if you don't have a rear remote installed then an additional $350 from Kioti or up to about $1000 for some JD/NH set ups.

Island,
I called Nelson Long at W.R. Long myself to order this kit. He told me I had to order the components as I described through my local Kubota dealer since they son't sell direct to consumers like me ... and it cost me under $350. They did not charge me any extra mark up nor shipping. This may not be the complete kit some guys need but I didn't need the brackets or whatever else might be in the kit you are thinking of, which I know there are more components, I think. It was also 2 years ago.
Here's what I bought as described in my first post.
It includes the new valve and joystick with a rocker switch that controls the electric over hydraulic valve.
It also included the subplate for the valve.



There are hoses and quick disconnects to buy also, but you need to do that anyway for whichever way you choose to operate the grapple.

I looked up some old emails...
I sent an email to Nelson with a quote from Madreferee for the kit you might be thinking of...mine did not include the hoses, mounting bracket nor quick disconnects.
Hi Nelson,
Got your name from MadReferee on TBN and suggested I email you....
Quote by Mad
" I don't know about the actual grapple/cylinder but the hydraulics will cost you either $440 or $520 depending on whether you get the diverter or true third function. The prices include the diverter or solenoid valve, hoses, mounting bracket, QD's and the joystick button. You can email Nelson Long who is a member here at NLong@wrlonginc.com and explain what tractor model and what loader model you have and he will be able to quote you a price. You will probably end up ordering thru a local WR Long dealer and pay some additional freight. Nelson should be ale to tell you who your closest dealer is."


Here's what Nelson sent back...for the parts.
----- Original Message -----
From: Nelson Long
To: 'Rob'
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2006 1:35 PM
Subject: RE: HYDRAULICS FOR GRAPPLE


OK, here you go.

The valve is our part number VALDO3S2C12D-35
The Subplate is our part number VALSUBPLATED03
and the Handle is our part number G3-0100HANDASY4

Thanks for the business

Nelson

Nelson V. Long
W.R.Long Inc.
Tarboro, NC
Office (252) 823-4570
Cell (252) 813-7825
<><

Furthermore,
Earlier this year I built a grapple for my wife's tractor and used a $110 true third function Eaton/Vickers solenoid valve, Hirschmann connectors for 5 bucks and a $112 joystick with switch. Sublate cost about $50 bucks as described in that thread I posted above. It does the same thing.
So about $277 total.

12VDC Solenoid Valve
DO3 Subplate
Hirschmann Connectors
Scorpion Joysticks

 

[3RRL]

Island, on edit...
I just read some threads that show the kit you are referring to to exactly what you said, so I am not disputing that. For everything including hoses, brackets, quick disconnects and more in that kit. My post above was to show that you can do it yourself for quite a lot of savings, excluding hoses and QD's, since you you need those whichever way you go.

 

[IslandTractor]

Island, on edit...
I just read some threads that show the kit you are referring to to exactly what you said, so I am not disputing that. For everything including hoses, brackets, quick disconnects and more in that kit. My post above was to show that you can do it yourself for quite a lot of savings, excluding hoses and QD's, since you you need those whichever way you go.

Yes, I agree. Doing the installation yourself saves a bundle. I do think however that the WRLong kit prices are pretty fair considering the dealer markup. I know that when I just bought the hoses and connectors necessary from my dealer to go from my rear remote to the grapple (mind you with a total of six QC pairs and fittings which was overkill) it cost me $250 alone. For those who really know their hydraulics I'm sure that Discount Hydraulic Supply could get you the stuff cheaper than WRLong but you'd really need to know what you were buying and most of us cannot keep JIC, NPT and BSP straight much less understand the various valve setups. I have come to think of the costs as roughly $200 for hoses on the rear remotes (only need 4 QCs and two roughly 20ft lengths of 1/4 or 3/8 inch hose plus fittings). Or, about $600 for the diverter valve set up complete from WR Long or about $900 for the electric over hydraulic, again from WR Long through a dealer. I'd guess you could knock a few hundred off the WRLong prices if you sourced yourself but you'd spend a lot more time figuring things out if you'd never dealt with hydraulics before. Other than you and MadRef (RIP) I don't know too many TBNers who would try the non kit approach.