More Road questions and advice needed

[newcountry]

I've been reading with interest http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/133637-road-costing-advise-opinions.html and have some additional questions about my own road project later this spring.

My current road consists of two layers of road rock during home construction (necessary just for the big machinery to get in). After completion several inches of asphalt millings were laid and compacted (this was mixed with some dirt). Every year I'd bladed in the spring and seemed to work well until last winter (2007). We had a very wet winter and we tore the road up pretty good. Then I didn't blade it again in the spring. Now I want to put some good clean fine asphalt millings down this year. Contracted company (still looking for who I want to use) will deliver and dump (I hope they will dump as they drive along as in Sam's posted pix). I will blade and compact with the tractor.

Questions -

As my road seems well compacted, seems like I should not need any fabric. Is this sound thinking? Should I add a different base first?

I've been quoted $10-13/ton plus delivery, is this reasonable?

How deep should I go with? I had used 3 inches which translates to about 85 yards. Every extra inch will cost me about $600-$800.

There had been a previous post with lots of back and forth about spraying diesel on the surface to harden the surface. I would like hear your practical experience with this - did you try it and it worked great, or was it vast failure? Also, how heavily to spray the diesel? Should it be a real hot day? My wife is worried about the road starting on fire (which I find hilarious, but I have nothing to back me up - any ideas on easing her concern?)

 

[laurencen]

well anything sprayed with diesel will burn, if you spray let it soak, mine is dirt gravel mix, bit of clay and road base on top, we spread a couple inches and its held up good, the grader guy said with working the top layer a couple times a year it will stand up, we have 5 months of sub zero, get a few ruts in spring but all said stands up well

 

[Egon]

There had been a previous post with lots of back and forth about spraying diesel on the surface to harden the surface. I would like hear your practical experience with this

If you wish to ruin any of the asphalt qualities of the shavings you will have delivered by all means use diesel. It will dissolve the asphalt and leave you with nice expensive diesel washed gravel.

You could get in contact with a local paving contractor and have him spray a proper asphalt sealant after you have leveled your road. There are also ways in which you could windrow the shavings, have them sprayed and then work them back and forth to make your version of cold mix.

The three inches you mentioned should work.

Fabric should be laid down prior to any granular material. So, in your case it probably would be a waste of money unless you completely rebuilt the road.

On road paving crews diesel is used to clean the tools. It works very well too.

Please note: For the past 40 years I have very successfully managed to avoid any activity that involves the mixing, laying and compaction of asphalt materials so I may be out date!

 

[Jeff244]

I agree with Egon about the use of fabric and diesel. The diesel may soften it up a bit and then it will harden up over time, but I wouldn't recommend it.

As far as the price for the millings, that seems awful expensive to me. I retired from the asphalt business in 2007 and I worked in the Chicago area. At that time, you had to pay to dump asphalt millings at the plant and it could be bought, after crushing for about $5 or $6 per ton. But perhaps there is a shortage in your area. Have you priced limestone?

Do you know if it is millings, which are not run through a crusher and screen or is the the processed asphalt? Obviously the processed asphalt would be more expensive, but it is better to work with.

Are the prices coming directly from the asphalt plant, a trucking company or someone else? The plant will often charge a lot more to a homeowner than a business. Try to call several sources and companies and see what you come up with.

If the area gets a lot of sunshine, the millings heat up and bond together very well.


Jeff

 

[newcountry]

If you wish to ruin any of the asphalt qualities of the shavings you will have delivered by all means use diesel. It will dissolve the asphalt and leave you with nice expensive diesel washed gravel.

You could get in contact with a local paving contractor and have him spray a proper asphalt sealant after you have leveled your road. There are also ways in which you could windrow the shavings, have them sprayed and then work them back and forth to make your version of cold mix.

That makes sense, if I was spraying it on heavy. It also makes sense to me that if a small amt of a fine spray is sprayed on the surface on a hot afternoon then when it cools in the evening I'll have a nice hard surface (after compacting, of course). I can see the dissolution if a large amount was washed over the surface, enough to soak the three inches. I'm having difficulty figuring out why so many posters in the past swear by the diesel spray. I am undecided at this point.

The three inches you mentioned should work.

Thanks, I feared it might not be enough.

Please note: For the past 40 years I have very successfully managed to avoid any activity that involves the mixing, laying and compaction of asphalt materials so I may be out date!

And I appreciate your posts Egon. They are usually insightful.

 

[newcountry]

As far as the price for the millings, that seems awful expensive to me. I retired from the asphalt business in 2007 and I worked in the Chicago area. At that time, you had to pay to dump asphalt millings at the plant and it could be bought, after crushing for about $5 or $6 per ton. But perhaps there is a shortage in your area. Have you priced limestone?

I called two places, one was a second-hand place here in town, not good quality millings. The second is an asphalt company - I think they mill their own since I can see their equipment from the road. I don't know about pricing history as my first batch was inherited on the land I bought. I'd prefer to avoid limestone just because it's dirtier (IMHO) than millings and I'd heard it was considerably more expensive around here. But admittedly, I have not priced it.

Do you know if it is millings, which are not run through a crusher and screen or is the the processed asphalt? Obviously the processed asphalt would be more expensive, but it is better to work with.

Are the prices coming directly from the asphalt plant, a trucking company or someone else? The plant will often charge a lot more to a homeowner than a business. Try to call several sources and companies and see what you come up with.

Good point on what kind, I figured it was crushed and screened product (they said it was <1inch), but I will check. And at this point I did only call one place. I needed to get an idea on cost so I'd know how much of the tax rebate I'd need to set aside to pay for this. I will definitely be calling around -- I'm also keeping an eye out for road work in the area and will be asking about a detour by my house where they can dump it.

Thanks for the info!

 

[Soundguy]

I'd go with the millings put down, 3" or 2" actually, in 2 lifts.. but put it down like a slag road.. ist layer.. then tack coat. then second layer.. then tack coat.. then sand it and roll it out.

if your previous base is intact.. you should be ok.

soundguy

 

[Egon]

I'm having difficulty figuring out why so many posters in the past swear by the diesel spray. I am undecided at this point.

On the very short term it looks like it is doing something that is desirable[ the bituminous material will get soft and greasy and spread around] but long term it is harmful.

If you have some asphalt available just pour a little diesel on one spot and wait for the end results. They will be loose granular product in the asphalt laying on top as all the bituminous material has evaporated.

Or take a chunk of compacted asphalt and place it in a pail of diesel. The result will be loose granular material in the bucket.

The fellows are telling about what they observe but the observation period is not long enough.

If you are layering it procedures and proper equipment used at the proper times becomes very important as the bond between the layers is critical to a proper job.

Note: 40 years is not long enough to be away from asphalt jobs!

 

[Jeff244]

Newcountry, if the material is less than an inch then it definitely is processed. Like you said, If you could wait until there was some milling work being done in your area, you could get it dumped for free or for a small amount per load. It will be pretty chunky so you would want to add an inch or so of the processed grindings in order to level the road out better. You could drive over the rough stuff for a month or 2 first. Assuming what you have now is a decent base, 3" or 4" of grindings should hold up very well.


Soundguy, We call it "tar & chip" around here when they apply the liquid asphalt to the road and cover it with stone. But the stone has no "fines" in it. I don't think using it with the grindings would work very well. Usually it's sprayed over a gravel road then a thin layer 3/4" or so stone is wind rowed over it. Then they spray that and add a 1/2" or smaller stone over it. Sometimes it is done with 3 layers. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, if the grindings get a lot of direct sunshine, it will bond together on its own. We had a stockpile of it at out yard and if it sat for long periods in the summer, it would for a crust on it that was difficult to break through.

Egon, I love asphalt. I loved the work most of the time. I even like the smell of it.
You're right about the diesel, we used it to clean the tools and if it spilled onto the new asphalt, we would have to dig the contaminated area out and
replace it.

Jeff

 

[newcountry]

Egon had me convinced already this morning to not use the diesel- thought I'd posted . Thanks for the confirmation Jeff. Wife was relieved when I told her.

Here's hoping road stimulus money comes to my neck of the woods! Cheap asphalt millings please