Mower Choice for ToolCat

Gadgetnut · Dec 5, 2005

Hello everyone. I had been away from the forum over Thanksgiving. But I'm back and I've been busy, my Walker diesel mower was delivered. 48" mowing deck with built-in grass handling system and hydraulic dumping 9 bushel grass catcher. Also a really cool PTO-driven wood chipper for the Walker that "mowed" through 4 to 5 inch branches and blows the wood chips into the grass hopper.

ANYWAY, back to ToolCat. I'm close to placing order for new ToolCat. And am making choices for a few attachments to start with for a "package price" and attractive factory financing.

I have a couple acres of berry thickets I want to take out and acres of high fields I would like to clean up and eventually mow like lawn. Eventually I want to clear woods paths as well. So, I'm trying to decide which mower to buy for the ToolCat.

My impression of Walker with 48" mower is-- it's highly maneuverable around the house and gardens and trees but it would be kind of slow for doing acres and acres of faraway flat field mowing-- I'm looking for something faster for the additional meadows-- but something that leaves a very attractive shorter lawn type cut.

I re-read the posts and it looks like Brian has both the 72" Bobcat finish mower AND a rotary brushcat type of mower. The Bobcat dealer demo'ed the Bobcat 72" flail knife mower on my property, which was impressive-- very heavy, like 1500 pounds, it seemed unstoppable and did great going into berry bushes and saplings. Less impressive on the tall grass-- that grass looked more twisted, pulled, and mashed down than cut off.

Will one mower cut the tall grass, the berry bushes and leave an attractive "finish cut" on the fields? Or will I use a Brushcat to clear it once and then end up mowing the whole thing with the Walker? I know that answer depends on how rough the fields are and how picky I am. The Bobcat dealer thinks I'd be best renting a flail or brushcat ONCE, clear the fields, then buy the 72" finish mower to keep the areas mowed. That would certainly speed up my mowing day and maybe I could use that front mower to reach down the slope to mow the grass/weeds towards the lake edge, where the Walker won't go. (But don't lose the ToolCat into the lake!!!) Trying to decide what ToolCat mower would be a good compliment to my zero turn finish mower. Thanks! --Chris

BrianSouthernMD · Dec 5, 2005

Gadgetnut/Chris,
Like me, I sense you will be happiest if you take the time to evaluate all purchase and rental options for finish mowing, brush cutting, brush and tree sawing, shearing, stump grinding, root rake brush grappling, etc. I determined a need for purchase of both the Bobcat 72" Mower (near-finish) and the Ammbusher 60" Brush Cutter.

I'm very satisfied with the Bobcat 72" Mower, a 3-spindle mower with three 25" 0.31-inch thick blades. But it only reaches a blade tip speed of 15,000 ft/min at 18 gpm, so it may not give quite as nice a cut as your 48" Walker. And note it will not run on the 26 GPM high-flow auxiliary hydraulics, which would have increased the tip speed. (BTW, to make its cut even better, I plan to explore whether or not one can use third-party Gator Mulcher Magnum High Lift blades with teeth to redirect airflow and push grass clippings back over the cutting edges again and again for improved mulch.)

I find the new Bobcat Flail Cutter very interesting and would not rule it out as an all-purpose solution for you. Rather than 72" wide you thought, the specs say its cutting width is 79" and overall width is 90.8" but it is maneuverable with a shorter length than most rotary cutters. (It does weigh 1642 pounds! /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) You demoed it with standard hydraulics, but it WILL take advantage of 26 GPM high-flow to let its 21 (double-sided?) hammers really go to town. Debris will be mulched and spread evenly; that even spread won't happen with most rotary cutters.

Both of these attachments have floating linkages and caster wheels or rollers to follow land contours, regardless of the pitch or altitute of the Toolcat.

Ask if it is possible to change the hammers in the Bobcat Flail Cutter, and be sure to get a well-researched answer. You might start out with hammers better suited for thick brush, and then when you get it all down, move to a set of hammers that will be better for grass. I don't know. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif There are different kinds of flail mowers with different hammers out there. This unit just may come with hammers good for grass, brush and standing trees, but maybe they can vary the hammers a bit (on a $10,000 purchase! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif).

I don't know who designed or makes the Flail Cutter for Bobcat, but it does share many similarities with high-end Seppi M Skidmowers made in Italy. I see the 79" Seppi M mower only weighs 957 pounds, but doesn't have as many heavy covers, guards and safety features as the Bobcat does. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

So don't dismiss buying or renting that Bobcat Flail Cutter until you've found out about hammer options and you've seen how it does with grass in your fields using high-flow! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

You may not be satisfied with the rough cut and uneven debris trail of most rotary cutters like the Brushcat, Ammbusher, or the Direct Drive Slasher bought by odleefs/Steve. That may point you back to the Bobcat 72" Mower, unless that Flail Cutter is calling out for you.

Gadgetnut · Dec 6, 2005

Hi, Brian-- Thanks for input. I'll check with my dealer regarding hammer options for the flail cutter. The day the flail was demo'ed on my property was very wet-- not the best day to cut tall grass-- and you're right, it was demo'ed with std. flow hydraulics. It seems like it could be a very versatile tool, from clearing to fast, near-finish mowing of the fields. And when I cut my paths on the hills in the woods, I imagine I'd lose traction with the ToolCat but I could see renting a track loader and running the flail cutter on the front of it.

Question: Despite improvements to loader geometry on the rev. C ToolCat, the rated operating capacity of the loader is still 1500 pounds, or less than the 1642 pounds the flail cutter weighs. Thoughts on that?

BrianSouthernMD · Dec 6, 2005

( Question: Despite improvements to loader geometry on the rev. C ToolCat, the rated operating capacity of the loader is still 1500 pounds, or less than the 1642 pounds the flail cutter weighs. Thoughts on that?)
Not a problem. The ROC is at full lift height of 84" and you won't be having a flail cutter up that high. The 5600C is designed to lift 2,000 pounds+ at least 60" high. The rated tipping load for the Toolcat is 3,000 pounds.

Also, your Toolcat ought to be able to run attachments on many hills in the woods without losing traction w/its 4-wheel steering and various drive modes. One limiting factor would be flail cutter width, unless all of your paths will be at that width (several feet wider than the Toolcat itself, which is 60.5 inches).

I ultimately chose to purchase both a rough-cut and a finish mower, and you might, too. But the Bobcat 72" Mower can handle more than grass and gives a nice-looking cut. The Bobcat Flail Cutter should handle a much wider range of cutting and mulching conditions, provided you have it set optimally for your work by choosing high-flow and exploring the full range of hammers that might be possible, even if they are not the default configuration, and you consider the purchase of multiple hammer sets to best cut grass, brush and saplings.

BrianSouthernMD · Dec 6, 2005

Here are links to equipment discussed in this thread:

Gator Mulcher
Bobcat Mower, 72" or 90"

Bobcat Flail Cutter
Seppi M. Skidmower SK 200 & SK175 & seppi.com

Bobcat Brushcat rotary cutter
Ammbusher Brushcutter
Direct Drive Slasher

Bobcat Brush Saw
Skid Steer Solutions Tree Shear - Hydraulic Rotation

Check them out!

Gadgetnut · Dec 7, 2005

Thank you for organizing the links, Brian, very helpful. You mentioned a concern I already had, that the 91" width of flail cutter is wider than some of the trails I wish to cut. Also, my dealer says the Bobcat flail cutter hammers are "the hammers" and is not aware of any other optional hammer choice. The 60" Brushcat sounds about right for my clearing needs.

On the other hand, the idea of a finish mower really appeals to me to help speed up mowing of the expanding "wide open acres" of mowing compared to using Walker for that. So, I'm leaning toward a combo of the Bobcat finish mower and the Bobcat brushcat. Brian, by the way, does the Brushcat benefit from high flow hydraulics?

Other than the mowers, I'm also rounding out my attachments to start with. I'm considering the Bobcat SG-60 stump grinder, Bobcat pallet fork attachment, Bobcat combo bucket, Anbo 60 inch GR grapple, and the smaller Bobcat dumping hopper #10, which holds about 30 cubic feet.

Locomotive8 · Dec 7, 2005

Does anyone have any idea what cost the seppi skid mower runs in US $ ?, the small one would be fine with me. Thanks everyone for your help.

BrianSouthernMD · Dec 7, 2005

( the 91" width of flail cutter is wider than some of the trails I wish to cut. Also, my dealer says the Bobcat flail cutter hammers are "the hammers" and is not aware of any other optional hammer choice. The 60" Brushcat sounds about right for my clearing needs.

On the other hand, the idea of a finish mower really appeals to me to help speed up mowing of the expanding "wide open acres" of mowing compared to using Walker for that. So, I'm leaning toward a combo of the Bobcat finish mower and the Bobcat brushcat. Brian, by the way, does the Brushcat benefit from high flow hydraulics? )
Gadgetnut/Chris,
Bobcat is only advertising the 79-inch cutting width FC200 Flail Cutter, but I looked in a May 2005 Bobcat attachments parts manual I bought that lists parts for both the FC200 (as in 200 cm) AND the FC175! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I wonder if Bobcat had planned to or down the road will still introduce a narrower 69-inch cutting width FC175 flail cutter? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

The rotor only comes with hammers from Bobcat, but I saw a similar Seppi indicates, "Rotor with hammers. Optional Y-flails with or without shackles." So I'm thinking Seppi Y-flails might fit on the rotor of the Bobcat Flail Cutter (which is designed &/or made by Seppi M. for Bobcat). And I believe Y-flails provide a more refined grass cut than the standard hammers.

As for the 60" Brushcat flow rates and balde tip speeds, check with your dealer and report back to the forum. The blade tip speeds with max & min GPMs listed in the Oct. 2004 pdf brochure don't match the figures in the html online. It's either an error or they've made a revision. Remember Toolcat 5600 is 18 GPM std flow and 26 GPM high-flow auxiliary hydraulics.

And remember the Bobcat 72" Mower provides a "near-finish" cut with its blade tip speed. But solid mowing in a cab with a wide cut is hard to beat! Take it all in and make the best decisions for you! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

BrianSouthernMD · Dec 7, 2005

( Does anyone have any idea what cost the seppi skid mower runs in US $ ?, the small one would be fine with me. Thanks everyone for your help.)
Locomotive8,
I don't even know if Seppi sells its hydraulic flail mowers with skid steer/ Bobcat-style quick attaches under its own brand name in the USA. Italian-based Seppi M. has been in business since 1939 and has all kinds of distribution arrangements around the world with skid steer and other equipment makers and marketers. The Seppi brand name looks to be on the Skidmower 69" & 79" ones sold in Canada. See prior post about the Bobcat Flail Cutter, 79-inch, and possible plans for their 69-inch version.

Are you planning to use this attachment on a Bobcat Toolcat, skid steer loader, or what?

Locomotive8 · Dec 7, 2005

I just liked the Seppi type mower because it seems to have a little bit of a forestry mulcher design with the combination of the flail hammers. It says it will handle up to 3" material while not requiring too much GPM. I am interested in using this on either a smaller Gehl skid steer or a Turbo 5600C toolcat. I would strongly prefer the toolcat but it is a little out of reach at the moment. Thanks for your assistance!