MUD - Hurricane Isaac came through my barn and left major gross mud - help!

[LeahDaisyD]

So, we rent a 10 acre farm in Bay Saint Louis, MS; which has one building on it - a two story barn w/ living quarters and a storage loft upstairs. The walls on the North and South sides have window sized openings; there are two 3' wide doorways on the west wall, and half of the east wall is wide open. Isaac's approach meant that we had an approximately 4' high storm surge flow through from the East -- from the bayou and swamp across the street and through our lower level. We evacuated, and our living quarters upstairs are fine; so we are very lucky and blessed as others have it much, much worse.

However, there is 6-12" of unholy funk mud downstairs and it ruined all of our "farm / garage stuff" that was downstairs.

We are also fortunate enough to have renters insurance, which includes flood insurance, through USAA, and the adjuster is coming tomorrow. My landlady is also coming tomorrow. And, the county emergency agency is coming to survey and record the damage so the county can get Federal Disaster Aid.

Right now we are just trying to pull all of our ruined stuff out from the mud / sludge and into the backyard.

But, once our stuff is cleared out, we need to get that mud out. Right before I moved in, the dirt guy (who is very nice, but does not have horses or livestock or any barn flooring experience) convinced my landlady to put down this stuff I believe he called "black sand" for the barn floor. It was awful stuff -- like super fine clay and super fine sand mixed together and super dusty-- pretty much it was just gritty dust -- everything we own was coated with that mess. We ended up using hay as bedding to contain the dusty black sand, and this spring we had the dirt guy use a mini bobcat to remove the hay bedding and most, but not all of the black sand crap. Now we have this mud fiasco to clean up, but I am noticing that there is nice clay under the mud and funk -- that must be the original "flooring". My initial goal is to get down to the clay --
our ceiling height is low -- too low for any tractor, so my question is --

do you think this mud is a job for the mini-bobcat rental OR do you think one of those septic pumping trucks would be a better option -- or maybe a little of both?

the mud is still very soupy in a lot of areas with water (well it's liquid anyway) pooling. There was actually quite a bit of standing water, and we (mainly my husband) got quite a bit of that out w/ the shop vac -- bless you giant craftsman shop vac! I have a submersible pump that I use to empty my stock waterers, but the water has to be a certain depth for it to work; and it does not do mud & sludge. But, the fact that the shop vac CAN suck it up made me think a septic pump truck might work???

So, anyway, hoping for some brainstorms on getting the mud out; so that I can present some solutions to landlady, insurance, emergency people - rather than leave them to ponder things and end up w/ something like the black sand fiasco.

Once the mud is out, and we are down to clay floors, my plan is to just use bedding on the clay -- and make sure the floor slopes down and out that open east side so that any water flows OUT from under the building. For bedding, I will use pine pellets and Sweet PDZ, so not worried about odor once this God Awful mud / sludge is removed as a thick layer of that pine pellet bedding is very absorbant.

But I have read about using AG lime for barn floors and would be curious to hear about that. I read you can wet it and it hardens to almost a concrete like finish. Wondering if there would be a benefit to putting that over the clay.

Once, the mud is out, we will clean and treat the walls to prevent mold / mildew. We are moving again next Spring, so we just need to get it cleaned up and livable for me and my horses and sheep until then. But, I am allergic to mold, and so is my old mare with heaves, so we definitely need it cleaned out properly.

Thanks in advance for ideas.

 

[boggen]

if you want a larger shop vac, and have a tractor with a FEL (front end loader) with a bucket on it. use some pipe insulation around the edges of the bucket and strap a piece of plywood over the bucket. drill a couple holes one for a vacuum hose and another hose to connect shop vac to. you now have industrial sized shop vac container. the pipe insulation or pool noodles should act like a gasket to obtain a descent air tight connection between plywood and bucket.

if you have access to a conveyer belt. that you could slid in. and let the mud and gunk move right on out. as you shoveled stuff onto the conveyer belt.

there are a few threads here on TBN about folks using modified skid steers and other machines to dig out "crawl spaces" under houses and buildings.

mini skid steers can give some really nice maneuverability, in tight low spots. but you need to make sure you have good ventilation / fans and like setup. so C02 does not kill ya.

=================
septic trucks and like. rely on wet slurry to keep things from clogging up in the pipes. meaning mostly water compared to dirt / mud being sucked up.

you can rent large size vac trucks (extremely large vacuum / shop vac) that has like a semi trailer box made out of heavy duty metal. but they are $$$$ costly to rent. and can be really slow and dealing with clogs can be a big pain in the rear. suck just a little to much up and hoses begin clogging up.

other words if you suck up a good amount all of a sudden, you have to give things time to reach the tank before tank another pass of sucking stuff up. or you end up with nightmare clogging problems.

 

[LeahDaisyD]

Thank you so much! This forum is so awesome. We don't have a tractor, and my ATV farm machine was a casualty here -- found it dead on its side downstairs, poor thing. The storm surge was salt water, so its done. My husband has been chomping at the bit for a REAL tractor, but he's still active duty in the Navy; and we have a few more moves ahead of us. We have been lucky to have good people to do "tractor work", bale hay, etc. I am thinking that renting the mini- skidsteer (what I called a mini-bobcat) is the way to go. I rented one before and got a little carried away ;( kind of like cutting your own hair and trying to get it even and things kind of spiral out of control. My husband was a little traumatized to see my "handiwork" when he got home from work.

However, I do not even want to say how much we ended up paying the professional dirt guy to operate the rental last time. I feel confident I can restrain myself and avoid digging down to China -- maybe!

 

[Carl_NH]

Gald you made it thru OK but dealing with clean up is always a PIA.

Since you have renters insurance, let them give you a $ number to restore it to "normal or original".

Then rent the mini bobcat and have at it! The $ you get from insurance may be enough for a down payment on that tractor. The only caution is what is owner's liability in this case as well - he/she has to provide reasonable living quarters?

Best of luck with your muck..

Carl

 

[boggen]

most non tractor folks i talk to. always say "bobcat" when they mean a "skid steer" due to bob cat popularity of making skid steers. but once ya get past the bobcat name. and start looking for renting. there is a list of other companies out there.

when renting, making sure you call places up to a couple hours away. even with having a unit hauled out to you, and then picked up. further out places can be cheaper.

also double check for 3 to 4 day rental vs a full week rental. longer you rent and pay up front, the more likely you get a bigger discount on rental fees.

there not much to a skid steer. just take your time. and do not try to ram rod things and take your building out.

be prepared for a very rough ride. there really is no suspension so any bumps you hit you feel through your tail bone, hands, arms, neck and back. and after a couple hours in a skidsteer, it can quickly hit ya, when ya go to take a break, then "ughs* as you crawl back in.

when digging only dig as far as you need to dig down and no further. trying to dig further down and then refill the area back in, can lead to "settling problems" (un-even ground) granted you may need to dig down some. and refill. but try to keep from digging down to a very min when possible.

if you have any kids or watch any, send them to someone elses house. and lock up the animals (dogs, cats, etc..) you really can not hear much over the engine, if at all more so, once ya get focused and start getting into the hang of things and your nerves settle from first driving one.

it is the one thing i hate about driving tractors more so ones with cabs or getting into a skid steer, everyone thinks that you see them or can hear them. *WRONG* all it takes is a slight turn of a machine or twist of your head. and you no longer can hear someone or see someone.

i am not trying to scare ya. but ya need to take responsibility. and get down right mean if that is what it takes, to keep people and animals away from you while working a machine. so no accidents happen.

 

[LeahDaisyD]

Good safety info. I am pretty safety conscious, but I did notice when I used the mini-skidsteer before that it's easy to forget how much power and force it has. I used the kind that you walk behind - maybe mini-mini Bobcat?

I just looked it up -- I used a Bobcat mini TRACK LOADER-
http://www.bobcat.com/loaders/choosing/mini_vs_skid

The tip to check around re: rental was good. I know the dirt guy paid way more than I paid to rent one; which of course meant we paid way more. I have a big truck - Dodge 3500 Diesel, so I could drive a ways and pick one up -- and I may have to anyway just because local equipment may be tied up dealing w/ the Isaac mess down here in the MS / LA area.

 

[MarkV]

I actually think the septic pumper is a good idea. It sounds as if things are still liquified enough that they could handle it. They are basically a trash pump for liquids and solids with a holding tank. Normally they have pretty long hoses where they could pump and dump on the property eliminating the disposal fee. Your problem mybe in getting one out before thing solidify too much. I'll bet a good number of septic systems were affected by the storm.

How low is your ceiling height? Many compact tractors can go through 7' garage door opening. A compact tractor with a rear blade could do a good bit if it could get traction enough to work. I have been involved in construction projects that we have used skid loaders (bobcats) to dig basements under existing homes. They can fit in some pretty tight areas.

For sure you will want to deal with mold abatement after things get cleaned out. I'll bet, given you have insurance, they will bring in pros for treatment after the mud is cleaned out. Most likely they will want to handle the clean out part also.

Hang in there. You just can't fight mother nature sometimes.

MarkV

 

[radioman]

if the insurance adjuster is going to be there - let him assess it and figure out how to clean it and pick up the tab. afterall that what they are there for. On the other hand, while you are there with landlord, have you explained that the stuff she hired guy to put down made a mess in HER barn on HER walls in HERE barn before storm came through? the storm might be a blessing for both of you. she will find that it was the wrong decision and put down the right stuff for future renting. how about crusher run? its a mix of fines and larger stones and when packed in its like concrete.
The farmers use ag lime in different ways. they use it as a disinfectant or to kill pests depending on form of lime. I'd stay away from it for now.

 

[BeezFun]

You might think about geo-tex fabric as a surface for your lower level. We put it in our barn about 5 years ago, it allows urine and water to drain through but prevents dirt from being exposed by horses or vehicles, which also keeps the dust down. We had limestone screenings down before we installed it, not sure if that's necessary. It's not cheap, I think we paid about $200 per 14x14 stall, but you can probably find it cheaper in bulk if you shop around.

Our friend has ag lime in their barn, it works well but they had an excavator who knew how to use it do the grading and installation. I think he mixed it with something but can't remember for sure. Probably want to make sure you find someone who knows how to use the stuff properly before you go that route because lime is really nasty stuff for humans and critters.

I'm partial to limestone screenings myself for the outside, but it gets pretty dusty. I think if you use any gravel product indoors you're either going to have to wet it or put up with the dust. I have road gravel (called CA6 around here) in a storage building and when I drive out of there I leave white tire prints on the asphalt driveway. Might not be a problem for you but my wife doesn't like it so I have to drive around in the grass to get the tires cleaned off.