Mulched Brush Volume

[Pac Coast]

Right now we are still clearing our building lots with a large excavator, loading into 12yd end dumps and hauling a few miles to a large tub grinder. A typical lot is 8,000sq feet, and often covered with crepe mytrle so thick that it is impossible to walk through. To clear lot line to lot line it is usually around 9-10 loads of brush, being pretty careful to get the brush packed into each load pretty well. With truck time and the charge from the owner of the tub grinder, it's about $200 per load.

It's a fairly remote coastal location, and there isn't anyone with a mulching type operation in the area. My question to those of you with experience mulching is about how much the volume gets reduced? Obviously loading mulched material into a truck would be much more space effiicient than whole brush. If we're at 9 loads of brush, what would a guess be of where we would be at with mulched material?

We usually have a load or two of overburden "duff" type of material that we have to haul to another location because the tub grinder guy only wants relatively clean material. It's 8-12" thick on a typical lot. I wish there was a realistic way to till that so that it wouldn't have to be hauled off, but I haven't been able to find a solution. Any suggestions would be most appreciated.

We are primarily a developer and builder, and sub out the clearing, but the clearing costs are getting significant enough now that we're looking at other alternatives. I had previously made arrangements to rent a Cat with a forestry mulcher to try it out but when I got there it wasn't the agreed upon unit and we didn't take it. A local Bobcat dealer has offered to demo a T320 witha forestry cutter, but I want to figure out a bit beforehand how viable mulching may be.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[ralanb]

We cleared a lot for a builder couple of monhs ago. 1.3 acres. We hauled it off with a single axle dump truck with 4 sheets of plywood nailed to the sides. it took about 9 to 10 loads. we pushed up all grindings.. the lot was extremely thick with pines that you couldnt hit a golf ball 5 feet in.

 

[tuckinlugz]

You will save at least 8 loads per acres if you mulch it. However theres no way a bobcat with a carbide head could be efficient at 8-12" junk. You need to find someone with a gyro or cimaf head to sub it out to. I wouln't buy one unless you have tons of work to do.

The grinder guy however will not want mulch mixed in with dirt after you root rake it. So you'll have to weight out the options.

 

[DIRTROAD]

I am not trying to start an argument, but an acre is 43,560 square feet. That means the lots you are clearing are smaller than a quarter acre in size. Somewhere your math is not right. If you have 10 loads per lot @ $200 each that is $2000/quarter acre or more than $8000 an acre to clear it. I could be wrong but I don't think anyone would pay that. Please help me understand here.

 

[Pac Coast]

Dirtroad, I've been a developer and builder for more than 25 years and can assure you that my math is correct.

Crepe myrtle can get really brushy, and at times there are some pine trees and larger stuff, and the 9 loads is an average.

When we were still allowed to burn it was really cost effective to clear the lots. We would use the same excavator to pile up the brush, and then burn it. We haven't been able to do that for a few years. For a while after we had to stop burning we were able to haul to another loaction out of town, and the owner of that property burned it. The state of Washington started enforcing a law about now being able to take material from one lot and burn at another location.

We've been paying that average for a few years now, a bit more when diesel prices were up. Last year my company netted a little more than 2mil building homes in that community alone, so we have little choice but to continue paying to clear the lots. It ends up being a fair amount of equipment time to clear the brush and make sure it's clean enough for the tub grinder guy as he won't take really dirty brush. It then gets trucked to the tub grinder location. The dirtly loads have to get hauled several miles further to be dumped, and truck time gets even more expensive.

We also build in eastern Washington, and our land clearing there is less than $2,000 per acre, but it's entirely different topography and vegetation. The coastal area is in a town with relatively small lots, often with houses on adjoining lots.

tuckinlugz, we don't have much 12" material. The 12" I was referring to was the thickness of the overburden on top of the sandy soil. It rolls up and doesn't allow for a clean final grade, so it has to be stripped off of the lot. Some times we can bury some of it in an area inside a setback line where nothing will ever be built, but it mostly has to be trucked off. When we have bigger trees we normally take them down with the excavator and have folks that cut it up and haul it off for free for firewood.

I think where you got confused dirtroad is thinking about average lot clearning costs in your area, or areas vastly different than where were are building in this one community. With green crepe myrtle and other brush that is so thick that you can't walk through the lot, it isn't possible to get it really packed into a truck, it's brushy and has to be secured as local law enforcement is all too eager to write a ticket for a bad load. As for what someone is willing to pay, that is all a matter of scale. Though it's a cost we would like to reduce if possible, we can't build if the lot's aren't cleared. On an average house our net will be in the range of 30k-40k, so we'd be crazy to not pay the price for clearing lots. In eastern Washington we an buy some two acre building lots for 30k, some of the 8,000 square foot ocean front lots that we've cleared and built on sold for 300k. The lot in eastern WA will need a septic and a well, and possibly need to have power brought to it. The oceanfront lot would have community water and sewer and power. WAY too many variables for a sane person to say that someone wouldn't pay what amounts to 8k per acre to clear a lot. Somewhat insulting that you would assume my math was incorrect. In an average year we'll build 60-80 homes and I'm pretty confident I have the math down pretty well. I am always looking at ways to improve quality or the bottom line though. And since we sell to a lot of green oriented consumers, using a different method may offer some appeal. If mulching could be much more cost effective I have little doubt our excavation sub may be persuaded to invest in the equipment or lose our business, or we will invest in a piece of equipment ourselves. Potentially, the payback period could be quite short, though my math is probably wrong.

 

[Robbie Hegwood]

Can you get into the soil any? You basically have two options.
1. Use your excavator and buy a head for it. Cat 320 size excavator will say 50-60k installed depending on how the machine is plumbed.
2. The Bobcat, as much as I hate to say it, might be the best option. should be around 100k and with carbides you can till alittle. Not over complicated.
3. On what your talking about they would be about even in production. You could almost do the whole lot without moving the excavator.

I would say at worst 1 load removed either way. Plus it will be vegetation so that should give you more options of where to dispose of it.

 

[jgrreed]

I don't know if the bobcat mulchers will do this or not, but check out the Ironwolf mulcher videos on YouTube. It takes full grown pines and leaves a nice fresh dirt bed to work on. I don't know if a mulch mix is acceptable for you or not, but it'd sure save on hauling.

-Jer.

 

[DIRTROAD]

I think you answered your own question.

#1 You would not have started this thread if you didn't feel that you have too much money tied up in clearing the lots.

and

#2 If your company has netted as much as 2 million in this one community, then why not buy a mulcher and use it as a tax write off if nothing else.

Either way you will continue to do business. Give it a try and see.
Smart BUSINESS always prevails.



FOOTNOTE: The quickest way to a small fortune is to start with a large fortune and purchase a mulcher!!

 

[Pac Coast]

Robbie, we've looked at the heads for an excavator. My one concern was that it appeared to me that there wasn't as much of a provision as with the skidsteer mounted heads to contain the mulch from flying. We are often clearing a lot right next to an expensive home with a lot of glazing. I may be wrong, but from the video's I've watched, it looks like the excavator mounted heads really sent some material flying more so than the skidsteer mounted forestry cutters.

dirtroad, gaining a write off for a piece of equipment that may not do an adequate job is false economy. We won't pay a dime for something that doesn't make economic sense. With section 179 deductions equipment purchases can make a great deal of sense, but only if it fills an actual need. I am not yet convinced that mulching will work for us. Maybe a mulcher can pay for itself based only upon the reduced volume to haul.

I've found someone that owns a mulcher that they use primarily for right of way clearing for logging companies. They are a little ways away, but are going to give clearing a couple of our lots a go. They are talking about piling all of the mulched material in a corner of a lot until the house is complete, letting it set and further break down a bit. They will bring the forestry cutter as well as a bucket to the jobsite so that they can pile the mulched material up when they are done. When we do our permanent utility hookups and have equipment on the lot it can be loaded and hauled off. I think we are going to try that and see what kind of savings we realize. If it makes sense, we'll either buy a unit ourselves, or contract with this guy on a more long term basis, or convince our current sub to purchase the equipment needed.

I'll post back what our experience is with reducing the volume of brush and how much it reduces our hauling costs.

 

[coastalcutter]

Do you have any ethanol plants in your area, if so some of those use the bio-mass that you are producing to make the ethanol and there might a grinding contractor that would take your debris. There is a plant being built in our area and they want all chips clean or dirty. They might take it for free, something to look at and you can use it in your marketing as well. Good luck