MX6000 Add on Remotes - Float Options?

[BackRoad]

MX6000 ROPS, FEL with 3rd function for grapple already installed.

Working with Messick's to add (3) "Kubota factory" rear remotes - which is stretching my very basic knowledge of hydraulics in spite of having researched lots of threads on the subject.

Plan is to use (2) rear remotes for TnT (on order from Brian at FitRite) for boxblade, backblade and rake.

The third rear remote is planned for implements with cylinders, such as backblade angle cylinder, adjusting traveling disc harrow and traveling cultipacker.

Suspect I can do it cheaper with after market parts and DIY, but desire is to keep it Kubota branded...and I am sure my install would not match what Messick's can do.

Their receipt of a remote valve with Float seems to be delayed from the factory.

I've requested (1) remote with Float for the top link as a minimum...although based on reading lots of threads, there has been discussion that (2) with Float might be better - but not sure how or when a 2nd with Float would be used...or even if really needed!

Question:
Is having float on a 2nd remote of meaningful value - sufficient enough to warrant pushing Messick's to provide a 2nd valve with Float?


There are some knowledgeable members on TBN - so kindly seeking more experienced wisdom...

- Terry

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Depending on circumstances, but the reason for having 2 float featured valves is so that you don't need to be switching hoses around when the need comes up for either the top link or side link requirement should arise. There is never a circumstance that I am aware of where you would need both in float at the same time. So a person can get by with one valve having the feature, but very convenient to have both of them with the float feature.

As far as the side link, perfect example is final smoothing of a road. You want the implement to follow the contour of the ground, not the tractor. Going around a corner where if not perfectly flat, you will either dig in or leave a pile of material. Put the side link in float mode and the implement flows with the shape of the surface, not rigid with the tractor. I have been told that this works very good with a snow blower also.

Do you need this option, absolutely not. Many people do fine without it, but it sure can make life good when that certain situation comes up.

 

[BackRoad]

Thanks Brian for the quick response!

Debating how hard to push the folks at Messick's to try finding a 2nd valve with Float...

 

[RickB]

Typically Kubota sells the lever/cable control and couplers for a particular remote valve position separately from the valve slice, ie to install a first remote valve one must order the first position lever kit and a valve slice. I suspect it would be very little trouble to specify a valve slice with float for any or all of the three positions you are installing.
I may be wrong, I don't have access to the wholegoods price book here at home to be able to check my comments against components listed for your MX.

 

[BackRoad]

Thanks Rick, the more I read, the more confused it gets!

Lots of options to consider.

Float vs detent, 2 way valves vs 1 way valves, configuration of the open center system to minimize heat build up...

I have designed and implemented million dollar IT solutions, but not knowledgeable about important stuff like tractor hydraulics!

Not convinced yet on what final remote configuration provides the most flexibility based on expected use...

It's sufficiently expensive that I want to do it right the first time!

 

[RickB]

So I was able to access the price book. There are two valve options for MX6000 tractors. The double acting valve without float or detents is a simple self centering (non-detented) valve capable of operating a double acting cylinder can be installed in positions 1, 2 and 3.
The double acting valve with a detented float position is only for use in position 2. This valve is self centering from the raise or lower position and is capable of operating a double acting cylinder. It is specifically mentioned the detented float valve is not for use in position 1 and 3, probably due to the limitations of the 1st and 3rd remote levers travel capabilities. The limitations on valves with float are disappointing.
There are no single acting valves offered. Your concerns about optimization of the open center flow are a needless complication, the valves are designed to handle the full pump flow output indefinitely without heating. Continuous use of hydraulic motors or the use of restricting valves in functions connected to a remote valve may prompt further discussion.

 

[K5lwq]

You have been giving great advice. The only thing I will add is you can have float on any of your remotes after the fact, just a different way to get the same results.

On my Branson, float was not an option on any of the remotes. Probably due to how tight everything is. So I added two electric solenoid valves teed into each remote port to get float on both of my remotes. Flip a switch and I have float. Turn off, no float. Pretty simple.

 

[BackRoad]

Rick, during initial discussions that started back in September, there was reference of only having one remote with Float on the MX6000, although I couldn't determine if it was technical or just based on parts available on hand at the time.

Your post is the first substantive confirmation...and a considerable help to move forward in finalizing configuration for the remotes.

Greatly appreciate your time investigating with data and fact on the options available.

So now, if the Messick's / Kubota supply chain can just find the last missing valve with Float...we can get on with it!!!

Hugely helpful, and Thank You!

Terry

 

[BackRoad]

K5lwq, thanks for mentioning that add on float option.

Trying to gain more understanding of the logic on how that works:

On the FEL, float allows the bucket to follow the ground contour.

I am guessing it somehow removes push or pull forces on the boom cylinders...allowing them to move in or out as needed - like putting it into a neutral state? (Again, that is a question based on fuzzy logic.)

Do you know how adding the solenoid works to add float in a hydraulic path for a valve that is standard return to center?

At a summary level, what does it do?

(And by chance, do you recall what the component is called, or maybe a P/N). I would like to investigate once I get the initial install complete if I can use it, and would like to understand it better and have it for reference in the future.

 

[K5lwq]

It is rather simple to understand. All float does is allow fluid from one side of the cylinder to pass to the other. On your loader valve, when you push the handle all the way forward, the valve always fluid to flow from port A to port B of that spool. This is internal in the valve.

The same thing would happen if you just put a hose from one end of the cylinder to the other end. Then fluid could move from one side of the cylinder to the other.

That is all the valves I added do. I used electric because of the cab but just a manual hydraulic shut off valve in between the two ports of the same spool would work. Close the valve and the cylinder can be controlled with the remote valve. Open the manual valve and the cylinder can float. You just have to remember to close the valve before trying to adjust the cylinder with the remote valve.

Hope that makes sense.