Natural Gas permanent generator

[weedsportpete]

We are contemplating an offer of a gas lease (drilling) on our property. We do know that there are many variables here, ranging from the gas company's decision not to drill, to a denial from the state DEC, to a well that stops producing after a short time.

But we do want to consider it, and part of that is the subject of the property owner's right to a fixed amount of natural gas per year.

This is my take on it - I know people on the site have gone through this already (including Mohammad). If we only signed a non-surface lease (no drilling), we would get a share of 12 1/2 % of the retail price of whatever is sold from the gas taken from underneath our property, our share being a portion split between all neighboring property owners, according to the size of the lot. Example, if 4 owners each had 25 acres over a 100 acre gas pocket, each owner gets 1/4 of 12 1/2 %.

The state DEC determines, through its magic and wizardry, the shape and location of the gas pocket, and therefore one can look at tax maps to see who owns the property over it.

Anyway, the advantage of having a well on your property is getting the free gas - 200,000 units a year (I forgot what the unit is). The rep said that the average household uses 71,000 units a year. I really have to look at the language of the lease (and get a lawyer to look at it), but I'm thinking about the other 130,000 units, and I've got questions -

- Has anyone had trouble with a 'farmer tap' like this? Is the flow dependable and reliable?
- Has anyone used the excess to power their home, i.e. with a NG generator, permanently off-grid?
- Are there 'quiet' generators? Or can you locate them far enough away from the house to where you can't hear them?
- would a large NG tank serve the need to make sure there is a reliable, constantly flowing supply of gas to the generator?
- are there any gotchas to going off-grid? How about going back on-grid - when the well runs dry/gets shut off by the gas company, I'd have to re-connect to the electric grid - is that a problem?

- any other advantages or disadvantages? I've heard some people convert their farm vehicles to run on natural gas. This implies more infrastructure - gas lines and fixtures from the tap to the tank, with fixtures for pumping into vehicles.

FYI - they are offering to include language in the lease that gives the property owner the right to determine the location of the well and the access road, specifies how deep the pipeline is, that the area that is torn up will be 'fixed up' (my words) when they are done and assigns them liability for accidents on our property or our neighbor's property, and responsibility for paying for it. I understand that these options are relatively new.

Any feedback welcomed.

Pete

 

[PineRidge]

Pete we used to service the HVAC equipment for more than a few homeowners that had gas wells on their property in Summit County. There were oil separators in place that were supposed to prevent the thick oil associated with gas wells from getting to the homeowners equipment but in all cases the separators simply didn't work as they were designed. It was the responsibility of the people that maintained the well to keep the equipment functioning properly but it never happened that way.

The oil in the gas fouls up and quickly destroys gas valves on the furnace as well as the water heater. And it always seemed to happen in the coldest part of the winter. Maybe your situation could be different with better care at the well head. Or you might consider adding separators on your own equipment and maintaining them yourself, or at least keeping an eye on them so that don't overfill to the point of passing the oil down the line.

 

[mwechtal]

Pete,
In our area (Corning), the Gas expolration company is discouraging anyone from going with that option. The gas here is under a lot of pressure, and it would take several regulators in series to bring it down to gas main levels. I think they're worried about the owner messing with the regulators and getting himself blowed up! As far as powering vehicles with it, you have to liquify it to make that reasonable. You can't store much in the gas state, so you would have to fill it up often unless you use a huge tank. I don't think that's practical.

Mike

 

[Egon]

As others have stated wellhead gas may not be of the best quality.

Well head gas may contain liquids that fall out on pressure reduction which require equipment for removal. May be H2S present. May have water in it. Normally it should go through processing to produce a dry sweet gas of consistent quality that is sold to a Company distributing the gas.

Perhaps you could have your lease reworded so the company will provide the x amount of gas through the local distributor.

Don't even think about about home site equipment for processing gas. Probably would not be legal anyway.

Egon

 

[weedsportpete]

Thanks guys, Mike, Mike and Egon, as usual, here I am provided valuable information I hadn't heard or thought about.
I would not want to install, maintain and wrangle with the gas company about additional 'refinery' equipment.. In fact, just a 'simple' farmer tap seems suspect, in terms of the possible contamination that we will have to deal with. Now I favor an alternative form of compensation.. I was thinking about just a cash equivalent, but may be the gas company will be easier to deal with (more willing to deal), if the compensation is what Egon suggested - x amount of gas through local distributor - they might have a connection with such a company and be able to negotiate more favorable terms. I will explore.

 

[Glenn9643]

I knew one person who used and was happy with his tap off the natural gas wells on his property, but he didn't use it at his home. He fired his grain dryers when they were required to get the moisture content down for corn or beans, and used it for heat in his shops at the farm.

 

[weedsportpete]

Thanks - Maybe the heating equipment he had was more forgiving?

 

[Glenn9643]

Pete, his heating equipment was home-made, using stovepipe welded together in an "S" to contain the gas flame and radiate heat. I should have been more specific about that. The grain dryer seemed to do OK on it, but most of the controls regarding the actual "burn" are probably manual on it. He didn't opt to use the free gas in his house, but has mentioned how much gas the grain dryer uses and how that has saved him dollars.

 

[PineRidge]

One other very important point that I don't think has been mentioned yet is that the specific gravity or BTU content of natural gas. Out of a well it is normally much different, or dense than the gas that is supplied to you by the utility company. This makes the well gas normally much hotter when burned. It’s similar to the gas that is supplied to you by the utility companies but on steroids! The utility companies will add things to it like propane to make the BTU content a more constant number.

In other words if the normal specific gravity of your distributed natural gas is 1050, which I believe it still is here in Summit County, Ohio and the gas pressure regulator at your appliance is set at 3-1/2 inches of water column then everything works like it should.

But should the specific gravity of the gas be much higher then it could and may create all kinds of problems since the flame will be a lot hotter and more intense for the very same appliance unless different orifices and or gas pressure combinations are brought into play. And who will be responsible for setting all that up? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Egon]

Actually the refining process takes out C3 as this is a valuable by product. What the utilty companies distribute is methane which is at the top end of the hydrocarbon chain.

Well head gas quality depends on many different factors each of which can be subdived may times.

EG.
perumability and porosity of formation
Compostion of formation material
hydrocarbon type content of formation
Type of formation drive
Type of well completion
Well production rates
well tubing size
velocity of fluids up well bore
Chances of coning liquids
If require the type of artificial lift

Gas at the well head is considered wet gas and until refined the properties will be variable.

Nothing nicer than having a pool of condensate collect in the furnace just prior to thermostat called for ignition and a burned down house. It has happened.

There is a very good chance Gas Roylaties will not cover the liquids recovered as these come in a different class.

Egon