Need advice on purchasing harrow(s)

[UncleBuck1]

I need some guidance on a couple of upcoming equipment purchases.

I purchased some recreational/hunting property in Mississippi that has about 5 acres of food plots. It was originally pine plantation but the prior owner bulldozed the plots about 18 months ago and planted them in rye grass. I'm wanting to get a little more aggressive with my planting and put in a mixture of oats, wheat and clovers. Since I don't need (or want) to work the soil (silty loam) too deeply I'm planning on using disc and drag harrows as my tillage tools, which is pretty common around here. Problem is this is all new to me and I'm not sure "how much" equipment I need.

First purchase is going to be a set of discs; I need to put down a heavy application of lime in the spring and will need to cut it into the soil. My tractor is an old JD4020 so I'm looking for a 7 1/2' or 8' set of discs to match track width. The HD "20/20" discs offered by Howse or King Kutter which weigh in about 850 pounds are pretty common around here, but I'm also looking at the heavy duty "300 series" discs from Dirt Dog. They are much beefier and weigh almost 300 pounds more- but also cost about $300 more! http://dirtdogmfg.com/system/manuals/pdfs/16/original/harrows_brochure.pdf?1377779475

I don't mind paying the higher price if I really need it- or if the discs will last longer- but by the same token I don't want to spend extra cash buying more discs than I need for use on 5 acres of food plots. Bottom line, how much disc is enough? And if anyone has any experience with any of these discs (particularly the Dirt Dog, which I haven't seen much on) I would appreciate anything you can share on you experience running them.

Also, when it comes planting time next fall I'm going to need something to help smooth the seedbed and cover seeds and I see a lot of people using drag harrows- both chain and 3-point frame spike harrows- for this. What are the pros and cons of the two styles??

 

[jeff9366]

You need at least 40 pounds bearing on each pan in order to cut well. Notched pans cut better than smooth pans, which will ride over some vegetation notched pans will cut.

I believe the 16/20" from Howse weights 878 pounds (55 pounds per pan) and the 20/20" from Howse weighs 1097 pounds (55 pounds per pan) and both 16/20 AND 20/20 come with notched pans, so both should cut vegetation well. Most people only cut over food plot ground once, then seed and cover, so enough weight bearing on each pan is KEY.

The layout of 3-Pt mounted Disc Harrows is pretty much the same: width, pan diameter, notched or smooth, pan spacing (7" or 9") and adjustability. Most have "clamp plate" adjustment of the gang angles. I have a Howse 16/18" and the build quality is very good. The only extra cost feature to consider is lever or screw easy-adjustment of gang angles (ETA, Brown, Monroe Tufline) which is probably not important to you in food plots.

For food plots you want the Disc Harrow a bit narrower than rear tire width. You will be maneuvering between trees with a large tractor and you want the Disc Harrow to follow obediently and not hang up in tree gaps because it exceeds the width of your tires, especially on sloped plot land.

A drag harrow conforms to the shape of the land and is "adjustable" depending on which side is down and which end it is pulled from. I recommend a drag/chain harrow for food plots. A spike harrow is more for field use, but will certainly cover seed in a food plot too. It is a little too easy to rip off spikes working a spike harrow in food plots.

A Culipacker is better at rolling in seed but is more money.

 

[sweettractors]

I need some guidance on a couple of upcoming equipment purchases.

I purchased some recreational/hunting property in Mississippi that has about 5 acres of food plots. It was originally pine plantation but the prior owner bulldozed the plots about 18 months ago and planted them in rye grass. I'm wanting to get a little more aggressive with my planting and put in a mixture of oats, wheat and clovers. Since I don't need (or want) to work the soil (silty loam) too deeply I'm planning on using disc and drag harrows as my tillage tools, which is pretty common around here. Problem is this is all new to me and I'm not sure "how much" equipment I need.

First purchase is going to be a set of discs; I need to put down a heavy application of lime in the spring and will need to cut it into the soil. My tractor is an old JD4020 so I'm looking for a 7 1/2' or 8' set of discs to match track width. The HD "20/20" discs offered by Howse or King Kutter which weigh in about 850 pounds are pretty common around here, but I'm also looking at the heavy duty "300 series" discs from Dirt Dog. They are much beefier and weigh almost 300 pounds more- but also cost about $300 more! http://dirtdogmfg.com/system/manuals/pdfs/16/original/harrows_brochure.pdf?1377779475

I don't mind paying the higher price if I really need it- or if the discs will last longer- but by the same token I don't want to spend extra cash buying more discs than I need for use on 5 acres of food plots. Bottom line, how much disc is enough? And if anyone has any experience with any of these discs (particularly the Dirt Dog, which I haven't seen much on) I would appreciate anything you can share on you experience running them.

Also, when it comes planting time next fall I'm going to need something to help smooth the seedbed and cover seeds and I see a lot of people using drag harrows- both chain and 3-point frame spike harrows- for this. What are the pros and cons of the two styles??

We have had nothing but praise on our Dirt Dog disc harrows. Below is a serious disc for a 90 HP tractor. Ken Sweet
New Dirt Dog HD 8 ft Wheel Disc Harrow Can SHIP $1 85 Loaded Mile | eBay

 

[Gary Fowler]

Your 4020 will easily pull a 14 foot pull type disc and amazingly they are cheaper than the small 3 PH type when looking at used. Lots of them around that with todays large tractors the 4 row disk are just scrap metal at most farms now and can be had at reasonable prices. I saw one on Craigslist (21 foot ) with fold up wings for $850 and it looked pretty good shape. I would look around the area especially larger farms and see if there might be one setting in the weeds that could be bought cheap.

 

[Thomabear]

A drag harrow would be a waste of time if dragging through vegetation. You would spend more time unclogging than dragging. If working anything other than bare ground I would suggest a disk harrow.

 

[Deerherd]

For 5 or so acres, I think that 3pt Dirt devil or Howse you referred to in the original post would work fine. I have a similar sized tow behind to the one Ken Sweet linked to that would be a much better choice but it's a lot more money, but it does come with disc scrapers installed. I need the scrapers due to the make up of my soil and wouldn't own a disc without them but that may not be the case for you.

Since you are trying to do this with no plow I would want to spray with roundup and cut the areas with a rotary cutter prior to discing to minimize the number of times it takes to chop everything up. Also I wouldn't wait until spring to get the lime out, the sooner the better because it can take 6-18 months for the lime to work, depending on how fine it is.

I also have an 8' Loyal drag harrow that I like a lot. I can pull it behind the disc or by itself. You can get two different amounts of depth by which direction you pull it or flip it over for a smoothing action. Storing it can be a little bit of a pain but it would make a great way to stop unwanted traffic on any road or trail. Running over that thing with car, truck or on foot makes me shudder! Even with the spikes up, it almost becomes invisible once the grass gets 5" long, just be careful where you leave it!

Try and find a cultipacker if you can, having firm contact with the soil is the key to getting proper germination of the seeds you are trying to plant. Disc, drag harrow with small grooves, spread the seed and cultipack and you will be good to go. Good luck!

 

[UncleBuck1]

Thanks for all the responses- this is exactly the information I was looking for.

I do have a follow-up question for Ken: the Dirt Dog 300 series discs look like nice equipment, but they come at an increased price. Based on Jeff's post it looks like the Howse discs weigh as much as the DD's.

Bottom line, what does the DD 300 series offer over the Howse HD line? Given my modest needs does the Dirt Dog offer any real-world advantages? The price difference between the Howse HD and Dirt Dog 3 is only a few hundred dollars and I don't mind paying more for a piece of equipment that will last longer or do a better job- but by the same token I absolutely HATE spending more than I need to!

Gary- I would love to find a used tow-behind set of discs if I could find one in an 8' or even 10' width, but the only ones I ever see are way too large. My smallest food plot is only 1/4 acre (and the largest is only 1.75 acres) and a 20' set of discs wouldn't be very useful.

 

[sweettractors]

Thanks for all the responses- this is exactly the information I was looking for.

I do have a follow-up question for Ken: the Dirt Dog 300 series discs look like nice equipment, but they come at an increased price. Based on Jeff's post it looks like the Howse discs weigh as much as the DD's.

Bottom line, what does the DD 300 series offer over the Howse HD line? Given my modest needs does the Dirt Dog offer any real-world advantages? The price difference between the Howse HD and Dirt Dog 3 is only a few hundred dollars and I don't mind paying more for a piece of equipment that will last longer or do a better job- but by the same token I absolutely HATE spending more than I need to!

Gary- I would love to find a used tow-behind set of discs if I could find one in an 8' or even 10' width, but the only ones I ever see are way too large. My smallest food plot is only 1/4 acre (and the largest is only 1.75 acres) and a 20' set of discs wouldn't be very useful.

The 20x20 notched in the 300 series weighs 1079 lbs with cat 1 and 2 clevis type hitch (no bending pins) 3" square tubing frame, 1/2" thick bearing hanger plate, self aligning ball brg, gang tube 4" x 3, 1 1/8 inch axle from high carbon steel (not cold roll) 4 angle settings with handle, 5 colors available on special orders. I don't know the Howse specs. Ken Sweet

 

[bdog]

I would not buy a disc without scrapers. I bought a howse 3 point it was a nice notched disc but the dirt kept balling up between the discs. It was about as dry as it gets around here to it had not rained in two weeks and that rain was a half inch. I am sure things are different in different areas with different soils but busting out that dirt was a nightmare. I kept hitting my knuckles on the notched discs and I invented new cuss words. I took it back and got a different disc with scrapers and it works great

 

[sweettractors]

I would not buy a disc without scrapers. I bought a howse 3 point it was a nice notched disc but the dirt kept balling up between the discs. It was about as dry as it gets around here to it had not rained in two weeks and that rain was a half inch. I am sure things are different in different areas with different soils but busting out that dirt was a nightmare. I kept hitting my knuckles on the notched discs and I invented new cuss words. I took it back and got a different disc with scrapers and it works great

Did you notice that the disc never clogged up where there was a disc bearing hanger? 2 hangers per gang. A inexpensive way to stop balling up is to loop a short piece of chain from the frame and around the axle. Ken Sweet

 

[Poopdeck Pappy]

In the "silty loam" soil you mention, you probably won't need the scrapers. But scrapers are an absolute requirement in any kind of sticky clay soil, as bdog's frustrating experience proves.

If you only have a few acres to disc, I'd look for something used (but in decent shape). Even if it's not as heavy as the better ones, you can go back over the ground 3 or 4 times (or more) if you have to. That old 4020 will pull anything you want to put behind it without even breaking a sweat.

I'd have to be REALLY serious about hunting before I'd spend $6,000 on a brand new disc to work 5 acres of food plots.

 

[UncleBuck1]

If you only have a few acres to disc, I'd look for something used (but in decent shape).

I'd have to be REALLY serious about hunting before I'd spend $6,000 on a brand new disc to work 5 acres of food plots.

I don't know why but used discs just don't come for sale often around here. I've been looking for several months and everything I've come across is too small (4' or 5') and light or just worn out junk. I only recently resigned myself to the fact that I'm going to have to buy new- which is what prompted me to post my original question.

I'm definitely NOT looking to spend $6k, but I want to buy something that will last so I'm not looking at the $1,000 discs from Tractor Supply (not to pick on them) either. Unless I can come across a lower priced but quality built alternative to King Kutter, Howse or Dirt Dog I'm looking at spending from $1,850 to $2,400 which to be honest is more than I want to spend to disc 5 acres. But I've learned the hard way that buying low priced junk usually ends up costing more in the end when it breaks after only a couple of years use.

 

[kneedeep]

I own a Howse 6' like jeff9366 showed. I use a pin and lynch clip in the center to make changing the angle easier. Just lift it up and slide with a spud/crescent wrench I keep in the toolbox. I have 4 solid 1" rods 12" long welded on each corner of the frame for old steel barbell weights to stack on for up to 400# of extra weight when needed. It works great on the small fields and is easy to transport.
I used a chain link fence section with tires tied on it as a drag for years to smooth and cover seed in food plots. Worked great!! Bought a cultipacker last year but the fence still worked good.

Deer plots are inexpensive and easy with a disc, cone spreader and chain link drag. I really enjoyed the seat time doing the food plots. Always helped me to get away from the stress of work which is one reason I enjoy hunting.
I have looked at some of the food plot specific seeders, they are expensive, nice and can save some time but you still have to spray and mow before plowing regardless of the way you plant.
I always sprayed roundup after mowing in late summer to kill everything before disking. sometimes had to cut twice around the perimeter and burn if vegetation was thick. Doing this really propagates the grass which in turn will help build up poor soil with organic matter and make that pine ground really grow some great food plots.

Good Luck and have fun!!

 

[bindian]

You might want to consider a used offset disc. I bought a 9 foot used Amco offset at Richie Brothers Auction, last year, and love it. 3PH discs never have enough weight! This Amco offset disc is the cat's meow of discing. Old but still good as new. It weights 3790 pounds.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/270878-amco-offset-disc.html
I also picked up a ten foot drag harrow for half of new price. It can be pulled from either end or flipped over for 4 different settings.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/277658-amazing-find-drag-harrow.html Post #13 has photos showing what a drag harrow can do in finish grading.
hugs, Brandi

Worth their weight in gold!
hugs, Brandi

 

[jeff9366]

Shorten your Top Link until the rear gang is completely in the air, all the rear gang weight then transfers to front gang, improving penetration.

Howse DLHT 16/18"; 587 pounds, 37 pounds bearing on each pan, 74 pounds (+/-) bearing on each pan with Top Link shortened to lift rear gang off the ground.

 

[sawtooth]

You might consider the Howse DHT. Its their heaviest cutter and weighs in at 1100lbs for 7.5' cut. I have owned mine for years and it cuts very well. I also have the lighter one mentioned in the original post. It comes in around 800 lbs but doesn't do nearly as well as the DHT series.