Need Help buying Tractor and Hay Baler!!

[PNWfarmer]

Hello, First post here. I'm a "new" young farmer and am just getting ready to start my own farm business. My family has a tractor, but it's quite small, and can't really do much, its kind of a hobby farmer tractor. For example we can't hay our fields, plow etc.

So I am looking for a tractor that would be good for plowing up sod #1.

And #2 I need a tractor that is powerful enough to run a hay baler.

I don't have any specific budget. I'm open to all options, new and used. Though I now used would probably be the best way to go, since I am not talking about a very large amount of usage for the difficult stuff.

So any help would be appreciated! I am bassically looking for a good tractor to plow and run a hay baler and its associated implements.

I'm also looking to get a hay baler, which is expensive itself, and I REALLY DONT WANT to deal with it breaking down constantly. If I had to buy a new or semi new baler to make sure it wont cause trouble in the long run I would be willing to do that.

So please help with brand/model/size and COST of tractor.

And also with brand/model and COST of Hay baler. (reg. size square bales)

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!
John

 

[Snead Tractor LLC]

Where are you located John?

 

[JoeinTX]

Uh oh, John, looks like you got quick interest from a salesman. Grab your shorts.

@Snead..............all in good fun here so don't take it personally


Whew. First, what do you consider a "hobby" tractor? For some that's an 18hp Shibaura grey unit. For others that's a 42hp Massey with an FEL. What's your context here?

Second, square balers are not simple or easy units and they'll wear more on a tractor than one might think. For balers-size, weight, and strength of a tractor are as important as is the simple HP it has since they can redirect a serious amount of kinetic energy and stress back to the tractor during the baling process.

Plowing up sod? What kind of soil? How many acres? What are you looking to work it with? Turning plow? Disc? Chisel?

What's the terrain like? Flat? Hilly/sloping? Wetter/dryer?


Both New Holland and Hesston's smallest current square balers require a min 35 pto HP for basic operation on flat ground, good conditions, and with optimum performance. That would mean around 42-45 engine hp. They are different things the horsepower ratings. Older small square balers might take a little less but you'd need a keen eye to find one on a used lot or in a Craigslist listing to pick them out. In the 1950s many people baled small bales with Ford 8ns at around 23 pto hp but those balers don't really exist anymore.

What are you going to cut the hay with? Sickle mower? MoCo? Swather? Again, depending upon which you have, can change the tractor requirements.


Just taking a wild swing upon the info you've given:

Tractor: min 45 engine HP utility tractor that can handle a three bottom molboard/7 ft disc/7 shank chisel that can also handle the smallest sickle/disc cutters and the smallest semi-modern small square balers.

Mower: any of a number of 7-9' pure sickle bar mowers to similar swathers or similar 3pt disc mowers.

Baler: the smallest square baler you can find built in the last 25 years that's in workable condition.

Plows already covered above.

2wd vs. FWA: Doesn't sound absolutely crucial for you. If you find it, great. If not then no harm since you seem to need a basic 45 or so hp tractor in good condition.

FEL is always nice but it doesn't sound absolutely a must for you.


Prices?

Tractor-you can get a simple 2wd 45 engine HP tractor with moderate decent use and hours as I described built within the last decade for $8-12K.

Baler-look for a little baler used and in good shape...........$3-6K

Mower-find a good disc mower 10 or less years old and spend $2-4K

Plow-you can find all manner of older discs, chisels, and turning plows in the range I described above for less than $1K on the likes of Craigslist or local classifieds. Especially for stuff like this, buying new and worrying about warranties is bupkuss. They are simple and working on them is pretty simple stuff assuming you can fit block A into slot B and so on.

I don't think you need to buy any new items seeing as how you can find any all you need for less on the used market considering this is a brand new venture for you. For goodness sakes don't go financing anything you're needing for this...........pay cash or walk the **** away. Put into it only what you can until you get into it and have a feel for it. Right now you don't.


Hope I helped some...

 

[Aqualize]

I agree a lot with JoeinTX and just want to fill in my thoughts on the subject.
I also want to now which make and model the tractor you now have is so we can put it into perspective.

I think some older real agricultural tractor that is small and in good condition can be a good choice. New modern CUT have strong engines but small tires. A big tire gives more traction (excluding the option if you go with a newer CUT that have front wheel assist (FWD), that compensates for the less traction with small wheels). Also the old ones can weight more (all depending on model) that gives better traction.
That is important when you are ploughing. The horespower of the engine is no use if it doesn't get into the ground.

I can give an example of the problem with traction, I have a MF 175 (picture, by not mine). With the FEL and required ROPS/FOPS in Sweden it sure weights well more than 3000 kg (uhm... would be 6600 lbs). This fall I was baling straw (with this model) and had a wagon attached behind the baler (this kind with wheels together).
I was going "uphill", I mean not more than 10 degrees slope and the bale wagon was nearly full. Even though the wagon was exerting some upward force on the baler's wagon hitch (when I disconnected the wagon later it tipped back and the drawbar went up into the air) and thus making the baler exert extra downward force on the tractor's rear tires, the tractor started spinning with the wheels.
Of course - if you are going to bale to the ground (no wagon) it will be much easier for the tractor.

It would be fun to see a [url=http://www.equipmentlocator.com/photos/equip/645027-1.jpg]New Holland T1520 power a square baler and perhaps even a wagon after the baler with its 2400 lbs and 29.5 HP PTO.
I can also fill in that John Deere's high density small square balers all requires 35 PTO HP. As JoeinTX wrote New Holland's smallest have the same requirement but the others I don't know at all where the requirement is coming from (their biggest require 80 HP!). Seems to be an exception between small square balers if the require more than 35 PTO HP (my old one is stated to need "30-40" (PTO?) HP).


And connect the square baler to the drawbar on the tractor that is beneath the rear axle - I was warned by my uncle who is a retired farmer from having the baler in a drawbar in the 3pt hitch as it would damage it in the long run. Even with my size of tractor when having the gearbox in neutral and no brakes applied the baler will while running make the tractor roll forward and backwards because the moves of the big piston/plunger.

The small old balers JoeinTX wrote about is perhaps what we in Sweden calls a soft baler or medium baler that doesn't have such a big piston for compacting the hay/straw (example). The engine requirements for those are negligible. But I don't think you want to have one of them. There is probably a good reason why I can't see any of those in production but the other kind ("hard baler") are.