need help with 7610S hyd remotes

[Soundguy]

Had a hard day at work.. got off late. Was looking forward to coming home and hitching up my JD 1517 batwing to my 7610S and taking her for a spin. Hit 2 BIG snags. Of the 2 sets of remotes I have on my 7610s.. only 1 set seems to work. Changing the hoses around, If I have the lift wheels in the ? outter remote, it will lift.. If I swap the wings to the outter remote.. they will lift ( 1 will.. 1 is stuck up.. discuss later). On the other remote, if you engage it, the line pulses like it is starting to presurize.. but then nada.. and it will stay like that.. the detent doesn't pop back. On the working side, if you pull rear to lift, once the cyl reaches max travel, the lever pops back to neutral.

Any ideas what could be wrong? Pump must be good, as 1 remote works FINE. I dinked with it for an hour untill it got dark. Tried reseating the lines to make sure they were in good. Only thing i can think of is a stuck open, or weak relief valve on that side??

I'd appreciate ideas. or by friday, I think I need to call the dealer to come get it... ( hmm I wonder if they can fix it on site? )

Next issue. Left wing on the batwing wont come down. right wing will drop or raise nicely. I made sure the manual safety latches were unhooked, and even left the (working) line on float, and stood onthe center cetion of the batwing and pushed against the stuck wing...

It was dark by then and i didn't want to mess with it much, though i didn't see anything that could be holding it back.. So there is another chore to take care of.. would appreciate ideas on that one as well.

Soundguy

 

[jinman]

Soundguy, do your remote levers operate through cables or do the levers connect directly to the remote valve? I'm sure your remotes are quite larger than on our Boomers, but the return spring has a vent that lets water leak into ours and can cause them to rust up. I had one sticking in the open position and had to disassemble the return spring housing to get it cleaned up. A picture of the rusted return spring is attached.

Your problem seems to be that one side of the remote is pressurizing, but the other side is plugged or not opening to allow return fluid to the reservoir. I'm just not sure enough about your tractor to really make a reccomendation.

 

[Soundguy]

On my 7610s, there are 2 complete sets.. a lift and retract port, and then next to that another lift and retract port. There is a coresponding lever that moves linkages with detents for each valve, back is lift, then neutral, then lift, then all the way forward is float. From where I set i can see the valve shaft at the remote going in and out so I know the linkages are good. When i pressurize the 'bad' remote, the hyd line does jump a bit.. but there must not be enough pressure to lift the cyl.... It also does not kick the remote back out of lift, and to neutral. On the 'good' remote, if you kick it to lift, when the lift cyl maxes, the detent kicks out and the valve kicks back to neutral.

I guess I'm gonna have to have NH come get it. While I understand the principle of hyds and operation.. I don't have the time to muck around with it.. or the space.. the tractor is so darn big i can't get it into the barn. And all I need is to pull the remote plates and get contamination into the system and smoke a 1000$ pump..

Soundguy

 

[PineRidge]

We followed Jim's lead, pulled the covers on all 3 rear remotes and painted them with a heavy coat of Never Seize. It's a thick grease with a graphite base that prevents galling and rusting on machinery.

If your remotes are even remotely close (pun) in construction to the Class IIIs you may want to consider the grease after cleaning them up some.

 

[JerryG]

Chris,
You may have the same problem that I have now. I have one remote that is not opening internally. It like yours will pressurize the hose to the remote. Mine doesn't past the remote. I have got to get it changed. It has been that way for a short while, because I don't use both remotes very often.

 

[Soundguy]

I stopped by and talked to the shop foreman at the NH dealer in town this am. He pulle dup a parts diagram and showed me where the relief part of the valve would be, and what cil-clip to remove to access it. Then we walked out and looked at a ts110 on the lot with the same (deluxe) valve set. Showed me the way to take it off... ( either 3 bolts to remove the valve from the bracket.. or 2 bolts to remove the bracket from the tractor. Plus of course, the hyd pressure line, and the return to sump lines and valving.. etc.

I wasn't real hot about getting into that expensive valve set myself.. but guess i will pop it open tomorrow morning onthe kitchen table and see what it looks like. If it's more than orings and cleaning a little surface rust out, i told them to expect a visit from me with valve in hand /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Hope that goes well.

As for my mower.. i think i have narrowed the stuck batwing down to a rusted up drive shaft not letting the wing drop. I think I will put it on float, and tap around the shaft and see if it will pop loose. Apparently the mower was used up until recent months.. so i hope it hasn't rusted up too much.

Wish me luck guys. I'm much more comfortable working on the stuf from the 40's-70's than this new fangled stuff!!

Soundguy

 

[mdk]

Soundguy-
is your remote outlet set for a single acting cyl.? On a TN 75,each remote outlet can be changed for a single or double acting cyl. Check your owners manual.

 

[Soundguy]

My manual doesn't mention anything like that...All I know is mine are the 'deluxe' remotes. There are 2 ports for each remote, and the lever for each remote shows a retract, extend, and float. Only other control is a flow limiter with a rabbit and turtle. Bottom line.. one remote works fine.. other doesn't produce pressure... NH dealer has it now, hopefully fixing it.

Soundguy

 

[DLMaine01]

Soundguy
Sounds like what happened to my neighbors NH4610 last summer right at the beginning of haying. He too had the "deluxe" set up. First lost pressure on one set of remotes and then on both. He removed the valve and took it to the dealer and $1600.00 and two weeks later he was back business. I do think his tractor is slightly older than yours though.
Good Luck
Dave

 

[Soundguy]

Gosh i sure hope mine don't cost that much...

Soundguy

 

[Soundguy]

Got my remote valve body back from dealer today after 67$ worth of work.. 1 remote still doesn't work.. so Know they will have to pick up my tractor to diagnose it on the tractor.. Should pick it up later this week. Boy I see this is getting expensive.

Soundguy

 

[jimg]

What was done to the valve body? Did something need to be fixed or did they rebuild/recondition it? If the former perhaps its a problem w/ more than one cause?

 

[Soundguy]

I'm assuming they just disassembled, inspected and cleaned it.

Problem was 1 valve was not working.. the other valve works fine. Can't be anything other than in that valve pack, as with 1 valve working, I know the hydro pump on the tractor is good.

Soundguy

 

[jimg]

What difference(s) are there between deluxe and std remotes?

Are there any electronics in the system? Im thinking sensors that actuate mechanical controls.

In your testing did you try each remote independently and together? Sometimes a system seems OK if each part is tested alone but fails if tested as a whole. In other words the system is healthy enough to run a single remote but not both together. In your case will the good remote still work properly if both are pressurized?

Is the relief also in the valve pack you had worked on? If not I assume youve pryed into them and verified they work ok.

I know this is a reach but could a bad connector cause this problem or perhaps a partially clogged line? In the later case Im thinking that when the remote is activated gunk gets pushed to a place where it causes blockage but settles back out of the way once pressure is relieved.

Is it possible to place a pressure gauge at various pts in the system to see where the loss is occuring? It would be real interesting to see what the pressure is at the remote when its activated.

I suppose there must be a siingle pressure adjustment for both valves?

 

[Soundguy]

I don't know what the difference is on the standard valves, vs deluxe.. only that my 7610s has the deluxe.

I'll try to answer your questions in order..

No electronics... it is just 2 levers, a hyd supply line from the pump, and a return to sump line.. also has a small pilot line going to the trans somewhere.

Remote 1 works fine. I have a batwing with 2 lines... wings are on 1 line.. tail wheels onthe other. Either of those lines work on remote 1.. remote 2 will not do anything with either of them. On remote 1, when cyl max travel is reached, the valve pops back to neutral like it is suposed to. on remote 2, if you move it to lift.. it stays there.. the line pulses a bit.. and nothing... doesn't pop back to neutral.. etc.

Doesn't matter if you have both remotes hooke dup or not.. only 1 works. Looks to be plenty of flow for both remotes, as you have to turnt he flow control down to 'turtle'. or the wings shoot up like it was a bird flapping it's wings..

The relief is int he valve pack as far as i can tell.

I thought about the bad connector.. but don't see how it could be, as both connectors work fine on remote 1.

A gauge could be used to test.. and that's what NH is taking the tractor in fo, as they could not test the valve pack by itself on the bench.

Pump and relief will controll the pressure for both valves.. but there are individual flow controls for each.

Soundguy

 

[jimg]

Just for reference I think knowing the differnce would be good. Is it just a matter of heavier or differ design? This may shed some light on the problem.

Whats the purpose of the pilot line?

The relief isnt in the valve pack...if it were to trip at a pressure well under normal would it trip the lever back to neutral?

There are 2 sides to the connector...I was thinking about the tractor side of the bad remote...

Are gauges expensive? I think w/ as many tractors as you have getting one might pay off in $$$ and peace of mind. Then again buying one might ward off anymore problems...like umbrealls and rain.

I wondered if each had its owm flow control...I wonder if thats where the problem is. I take it that you didnt mess w/ this control.

Ill be interested in the followup posting when you get the tractor back.

 

[Soundguy]

Again.. I'll try to answer in order.

I havn't a clue about the 'non deluxe units. All the TN and similar model tractors to my 7610s seem to have this 'deluxe' design. The only thing I have to compair to is the remote on my 1975 ford 5000.. no frills.. just a hyd valve on the hyd cover.. etc.

I think the pilot line provides pressure for the independent pto clutch.. though I don't have a complete parts breakdown of that area to be sure.

Actually.. i do think the relief is built in to the valve pack.. And yes. once the cylinder reaches it's end of travel, the valve detent kicks out and lets the valve go to neutral. .. On the good one anyway..

No.. gauges aren't that expensive.. however.. I doub't one would tell me anything more than I can already observe... 1 remote is getting sufficient operating pressure.. the other remote is putting out some pressure.. but not sufficient pressure... the oil is just being dumped back to sump.. either thru a bad check /diverter or a stuck relief...( my guess )

Yes.. as I stated in my previous post.. each valve has it's own flow control.. and yes.. i changed them.. that wouldn't effect this problem... I'm have a low pressure problem.. not a low flow.

Besides.. both I and the dealer have had the top of the valve body apart.. that controlls the detent, spool, and flow control. The lower portion of the valve body I believe has the diverter/priority/check and relief valve... that one is very difficult to get into.. I dind't mess with it.. and dealer didn't take it apart yet.. wanted to have the tractor with it before checking the relief and check valves.. etc.

Info as it comes.

Soundguy