Need some advice on water tank project

[coreshot]

Up at my cabin, I placed a 1550 gallon black plastic water storage tank up on the hill behind camp this summer. The tank is just sitting on a flat spot that I dug out with the Kubota. I knew there was more work to be done, but it was good enough for now. Well, I've already had a 2 inch ball valve freeze and break, dumping about 400 gallons down the hill. So I have decided to expidite my plans to get the tank in the ground.

I have thought about several ways to get the tank protected, some cheaper than others. Money is a huge issue right now, so this is what I'm thinking: Bury the tank up to the bottom of the domed top section. The tank isn't meant to be completely buried, but I think I can get away with bringing dirt up the sides. To stabilize the sides from being pushed in from the weight of the dirt, I want to use corrugated tin sections, with the ridges running vertically. I will rivet te sections together and wrap them all the way around the tank. This should give me the strength I need to maintain the round shape of the tank. Thoughts?

I drew a fairly accurate sketch on Google Sketchup.... thanks in advance for your input.

 

[coreshot]

I've also thought about building a heavily insulated shed around the tank, but this will be more expensive, and I'm not sure it would do the job without a heat source inside.

 

[3RRL]

Does the entire tank need to be under ground for some specific reason?
If money is tight, why not build a bunker around the outlet and valve only. Frame it with wood or large rocks so you can put dirt or whatever medium around the outlet and valve...like those underground boxes used for protecting sprinkler valves or other valves in the ground. Use a large diameter pipe and top so you can still access the valve from the top. I presume the rest of the outlet pipe (going to your home or wherever) is already trenched and under ground?

 

[coreshot]

I'm thinking that the more I bury, the less there will be to freeze. I would like to able to use the water supply all winter. I figure the top several inches would ice over, but the water down around the valve would remain useable. The line heading down toward camp isn't buried yet, but it's going to have to be. It's about 300 feet of heavy scrub oak- not going to be fun.

I'm not sure how the dynamics of freezing work, but it seems to me that if the sides of the tank are exposed to the cold, the water could freeze laterally as well as from the top down. Am I mistaken?

 

[Treemonkey1000]

You probably want to insulate it from freezing at all. The ice will expand and wrinkle your tank walls. So burying it is one way. Your idea of ridged metal around it sounds good. If you can bury it enough then have your metal barrier around it. Leave a gap between the tank. Around here the water company covers the water shut off with sawdust. If you have sawdust or smaller wood chips that would be cheap insulation.
How do you fill it in the first place? Being in Utah you probably get some good cold weather. Styrofoam is a good insulation if it isn't exposed to sunlight a lot. Even the styrofoam packing peanuts would work as insulation around your valve.

 

[coreshot]

You probably want to insulate it from freezing at all. The ice will expand and wrinkle your tank walls. So burying it is one way. Your idea of ridged metal around it sounds good. If you can bury it enough then have your metal barrier around it. Leave a gap between the tank. Around here the water company covers the water shut off with sawdust. If you have sawdust or smaller wood chips that would be cheap insulation.
How do you fill it in the first place? Being in Utah you probably get some good cold weather. Styrofoam is a good insulation if it isn't exposed to sunlight a lot. Even the styrofoam packing peanuts would work as insulation around your valve.

Until I get my well in, my neighbor runs his well into my tank. He's above me on the mountain, so my tank is only about 50' from his well head. It get fairly cold up there, maybe down to around 0 to 10 degerees at night. But it does get quite a layer of snow all winter, so that should help.

I have thought about an insulated roof over the exposed top of the tank, probably would do that for sure even if just to keep kids and animals off the the tank. As for the valve, I was leaning towards a stop and waste type of valve and having it buried about 4-5 feet down and just use a key to operate it.

 

[tommu56]

We had a set up like that at my fil cabin

Ours the spring would run all year and flow in to the tank
we had an over flow on the tank just in case it filled up.
We left a valve open at the back of the cabin to keep a trickle going all winter leave the valve open enough to keep it from freezing.
the pipe was black poly pipe just laying on the ground up the mountain we had 60-70 psi at the cabin.

if the poly froze it wouldn't burst the pipe.
It would push a coupling or elbow off the pipe when it did freeze, and that was usually caused by some one turning the valve off under the cabin and the kitchen faucet.

No other vales in the line they just caused more headaches.

There was a union to unhook the cabin from the line so it would drain when we left.

While we were there we just left the kitchen faucet drip to keep the line from the tee to in the cabin open

look at a blue bruiser tank it designed to be buried under ground (mine is about 3' under ground and hasn't frozen in 4 years)

tom

 

[hitekcountry]

What I was told when I installed my water tank was to set it on a bed of pea gravel because the tank will expand and contract. What you want to avoid is a fixed point (rock?)that could wear through the base or sides of the tank. I set my tank on concrete and for that I was told to put down a layer of tarpaper under the tank. So I don't know if any sharp edges or the ridges of the tin would be an issue or not.

 

[Mattlt]

Just thinking out loud here, but could you use a small pump to circulate the water in the tank? Maybe a 12V RV-type water pump, run off a battery charged with a solar panel.

Besides burying/insulating the tank of course. The well insulated shed around the tank, along with the circulating water might be enough to keep things from freezing.

Also, there are types of cattle waterers that use heat from the ground to keep them from freezing. Not sure what they're called, but maybe you could adapt something like this?

 

[The Dougster]

I am reminded of a time I was hunting in Utah... we carried our drinking water in 5-gallon plastic jugs... First lesson learned was that it gets cold in the mountains. The first morning we couldn't make coffee because all our water had frozen... UGH!
Personally, I'd follow the suggestion of only insulating the valve that releases the water to the cabin. Your container is black poly and that will gain a lot of heat during the days of sunshine, which should keep the water from freezing completely... Don't fill the container all the way. Leave space at the top for the ice to expand upwards. If money is tight, I'd do the minimum until nature proves more will be necessary.. Good luck...