Buying Advice new CK20s versus one-owner CK27

[DroppedAxle]

Hi All,

I think I've narrowed my tractor choice down to a CK20s or a CK27.

Here's my situation: small 6ac farm, primarily pasture, almost completely flat; about 1/2ac is vegetable garden & chickens; mowing around farm house is minimal and can be handled by my JD lowes-special lawn tractor; 600' gravel drive that develops potholes; split-rail fencing all around that needs to be upgraded/repaired. A one-time task will be to put about 100 cu. yards of tree limbs, rotting fencing, and left over construction materials from the previous owner into dumpsters. Ongoing tasks will be drilling fence-post holes, driveway maintenance, snow removal, digging small holes for new trees, and moving new trees around property.

Now I've found a new CK20s (gear) and a single-owner 325hr 2010 CK27 at the same dealer for about the same price ~12500 and the new CK20s HST at ~13200, all with Kioti FEL.

My preference is for the CK20s HST since it is smaller and lighter and might therefore be easier to maneuver through fenced drives, etc. Also, its size and HST might be a better fit for my wife and girls (when they get bit older). It would also fit into an empty animal shed already on the property, whereas the CK27 is a bit too long.

I'm willing to be convinced to go a bit larger with the CK27 though.

1st question: Are there any known things to look out for with either machine? As far as I can tell from this forum, the issues with the loaders (cracks) and the glow plugs on the CK20 (cold start) have all been resolved -- is that the case?

2nd question: how much is a warranty worth? The new CK20s obviously has the full Kioti warranty whereas the CK27 has a year or so left on the drivetrain only. This seems like a big deal to me, but maybe it shouldn't be?

3rd question: how much wiggle room is there in the first prices the dealer quoted me? Would it be reasonable to suggest 5% lower? How much does a dealer mark up a used machine traded-in? 10%, 20%?

Thanks for any insight and advice.

-DA

 

[IXLR8]

I don't know about tractor dealers, but car dealers have more markup/profit on used cars than new ones. I had a CK30, so I am biased and would prefer the CK27 over the CK20. I am 6'1" and the 20 was a bit cramped for me. The 2 speed HST on the 20 can also be annoying when low is too slow and the little 20 doesn't have the power to do anything in high, it would be nice to have a middle gear. Both machines will get the job done and the 20 might be a little easier for the women in your family, but there is no reason they couldn't handle the 27 with a little practice. I think the heavier 27 would be better for some of the ground engaging tasks you mentioned, like the road grading. The 20 is a tough little package and will do the job, but you will need smaller attachments and the job will take longer.

 

[Gittyup]

A little confused. First you said "CK20S (gear)". Then you start talking CK20 HST. The CK20 gear is not shuttle shift and only has 2 reverse speeds. Both of which are very slow. The CK27 gear is shuttle shift and this will give you most power to the ground/PTO. HST would be an improvement on either, but even more important with the 20 due to the number of reverse speeds on the gear. I think either would do the job. The bigger CK has much better hydraulics and is much heavier, making it better for ground engagement. This is what swayed me to go with the bigger tractor. As tractors go, it's pretty small and your wife will easily get used to either in HST. She probably wouldn't like the clutch on the manuals. BTW, the 20 also does not have a live PTO, which is a nice feature when running rear PTO implements. The hours on the 27 are nothing if the tractor was properly maintained.

And to my knowledge, all the design bugs should be gone for these machines. And $12,500 for the CK27 isn't too bad. Might could get him to $12,000 if he thought you were also looking elsewhere.

 

[DroppedAxle]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

Gittyup: the CK20s is available new from that dealer in both gear and HST with a $700 price difference. Thanks for the heads-up on the PTO -- that could be significant for post-hole auger work I would think (but I have no experience with that yet). And yes, the gear sounds less than ideal compared to a shuttle shift, so maybe it's got to be HST.

Both models drop out of Kioti's lineup for 2014 so that might give some bargaining leverage. Any suggestions on how to negotiate? What's a reasonable percentage to try and knock off the dealer's first price?

 

[VictorW]

If you can, try to drive both and see how they fit you and how the power in all ranges suits you. I bought a CK30hst instead of a gear just so my wife would be happy. She's really doesn't like a clutch. Both would do the work you want with the CK27 being a little heavier for ground engagement projects, more hp for the pto, and if you could fine an hst, three speed ranges. The CK20, from those who own them, say they are little tanks. The gear model works well but as mentioned, two speed ranges on the hst is the draw back. Low is to slow and high seems to be only for travelling. My daughter was 13 and driving mine with no problems. All issues that members posted have been resolved on both models that I know of. As far as warranty, I had just the fuel sending unit replaced within the first year. Since then, 8 years and 600 hours, no problems. As far as price on a new one when I shopped, they varied by $1,000 between three dealers. The 30hp was 1k more than the 25hp, which was what they had back then, and the hst was another 1k. A new CK25hst was $12,500 in 2005 without fel and fel was 3.5k extra. I'd say that they gave on trade in at least 1k less than they're asking.

 

[Illini22]

The larger ck's come with the ssqa bucket and telescoping 3 pt arms and suspension seat .

 

[murphy1244]

The larger ck's come with the ssqa bucket and telescoping 3 pt arms and suspension seat .

That makes a Big difference.

 

[rimshot]

I pull a five foot box blade with my CK20 HST and it does just fine. I broke up 700 feet of packed 22A road Pack and then regraded. I have removed lots of stumps with my backhoe. I'm certain that the larger he larger CK's would do the job quicker but the 20 is a little beast. MY CK20 H has over1200 hours of working hard. i l Like peace of mind starting fresh with a 4 year drive train.

rimshot

 

[Gittyup]

I pull a five foot box blade with my CK20 HST and it does just fine. I broke up 700 feet of packed 22A road Pack and then regraded. I have removed lots of stumps with my backhoe. I'm certain that the larger he larger CK's would do the job quicker but the 20 is a little beast. MY CK20 H has over1200 hours of working hard. i l Like peace of mind starting fresh with a 4 year drive train.

rimshot

rimshot, you are getting up there in hours. I think that's the most I've ever seen posted for a CK20. Gives me reassurance that my CK25 will keep servicing me well.

 

[rider7767]

I think each are great tractors. I bought the CK20S geared because it was a little lighter for finish mowing.
Loader: I have used the bucket loader to the extreme with out problems. I do maintain it well. It is very strong for it size.
Tractor: The geared transmission is clunky just the way I like it. My saying is, "It is clunky now, and it will be clunky 20 years from now." I pull a four foot heavy duty brush cutter over multiple 1-2" saplings. I also mow my yard with a 4' finishing mower up and down very steep hills. I have taken my time with some pretty big projects. I did get my rear tires loaded. I picked the CK20S because it is what I mow my yard with, and I was afraid the extra weight of the CK27 might tear up my steep yard. Don't get me wrong, the CK20S is heavy. With tires loaded, It is weighing in over 3000lbs. I like the new tractor warranty.