New cutter needs PTO adaptation

wwalkersd · May 8, 2009

The therapeutic riding center where I volunteer just picked up this heavily used cutter:

I believe it's a Woods Dixie Cutter model M5-4 (which is irrelevant to my question).

The tractor end of the PTO shaft (not shown in the photo) has a coupler that requires a pin through it. The Over-Running Clutch on the Ford 2N we're going to use it with doesn't have a hole through the shaft (nor do most modern tractor PTO shafts, AFAIK).

So, I have a few choices:

1) Buy a new ORC with a hole for about $70

2) Buy a new yoke with a QD coupler for about $40.

3) Buy a whole new PTO shaft for $100-$300.

I'm leaning towards option 2. I found the manual for the tractor, and Woods offered a QD yoke listed as "1-3/8 Spline QD Yoke L14R" (nobody online lists this part. Gonna call a dealer, but I'm betting against it). I'm assuming the L14R is a universal joint series spec. But the closest thing I can find listed is a 14N. I haven't been able to find a site that explains these u-joint series numbers to me.

So the real question is, is "14N" compatible with "L14R"?

P.S. Before somebody mentions it, yes, I'm planning to install some sort of chain shielding front and rear before we use it. Gotta search the forums for the threads I've already seen on building 'em, because the Woods ones are $275 front and $295 rear, which would be nearly double what we paid for the mower!

sandman2234 · May 8, 2009

Unless I missed something in my hurried reading, I think there is another option. Have you considered just drilling the hole in the one you have? Drill press, milling machine or farm it out, but I don't think I would use a hand held drill motor, unless your experienced at drilling holes in steel with what you have. (too easy to get off centered with a hand drill)
David from jax

greg_g · May 8, 2009

Personally I'd get a whole new PTO shaft assembly. That way you don't have to worry about matching up the missing half of what may end up being an obsolete assembly. And they're available for considerably less than $100. AgriSupply has'em starting around fifty bucks: http://www.agrisupply.com/category.asp?c=3500010&action=showall&ipp=5000&sb=1&x=8&y=10

//greg//

wwalkersd · May 9, 2009

sandman2234 said:
Unless I missed something in my hurried reading, I think there is another option. Have you considered just drilling the hole in the one you have? Drill press, milling machine or farm it out, but I don't think I would use a hand held drill motor, unless your experienced at drilling holes in steel with what you have. (too easy to get off centered with a hand drill)
David from jax

Well, I do have a tabletop drill press (used for one project), but aren't these shafts made from very hard metal? Although I suppose a machine shop wouldn't charge me too much to drill one hole.

wwalkersd · May 9, 2009

greg_g said:
Personally I'd get a whole new PTO shaft assembly. That way you don't have to worry about matching up the missing half of what may end up being an obsolete assembly. And they're available for considerably less than $100. AgriSupply has'em starting around fifty bucks: http://www.agrisupply.com/category.asp?c=3500010&action=showall&ipp=5000&sb=1&x=8&y=10

//greg//

Well, I'm a little partial to the existing shaft because it has a slip clutch (though who knows whether it works?).

I see those shafts in different "grades" on Agrisupply, e.g., GR1, GR4, etc. Is there a translation to HP ratings somewhere? Yes, I AM totally new to PTO-driven implements.

greg_g · May 9, 2009

wwalkersd said:
Well, I'm a little partial to the existing shaft because it has a slip clutch (though who knows whether it works?).

I don't see one in the picture. Any slip clutch I'm familiar with is too big to fit under that square shroud. That said, the same website has probably a hundred or more different weld-on yokes. But they're no good unless you have the other half of the shaft. Or is that just not in your photo? If you don't have it, the same site again has both inner and outer shaft halves with yokes attached.

wwalkersd said:
I see those shafts in different "grades" on Agrisupply, e.g., GR1, GR4, etc. Is there a translation to HP ratings somewhere?

I don't know the literal translation of those ID codes, but they represent compressed length - not grade. Can't point you directly to it, but there should be a chart on there somewhere - that associates ID with length.

//greg//

RickB · May 9, 2009

wwalkersd said:
The therapeutic riding center where I volunteer just picked up this heavily used cutter:

I believe it's a Woods Dixie Cutter model M5-4 (which is irrelevant to my question).

The tractor end of the PTO shaft (not shown in the photo) has a coupler that requires a pin through it. The Over-Running Clutch on the Ford 2N we're going to use it with doesn't have a hole through the shaft (nor do most modern tractor PTO shafts, AFAIK).

So, I have a few choices:

1) Buy a new ORC with a hole for about $70

2) Buy a new yoke with a QD coupler for about $40.

3) Buy a whole new PTO shaft for $100-$300.

I'm leaning towards option 2. I found the manual for the tractor, and Woods offered a QD yoke listed as "1-3/8 Spline QD Yoke L14R" (nobody online lists this part. Gonna call a dealer, but I'm betting against it). I'm assuming the L14R is a universal joint series spec. But the closest thing I can find listed is a 14N. I haven't been able to find a site that explains these u-joint series numbers to me.

So the real question is, is "14N" compatible with "L14R"?

P.S. Before somebody mentions it, yes, I'm planning to install some sort of chain shielding front and rear before we use it. Gotta search the forums for the threads I've already seen on building 'em, because the Woods ones are $275 front and $295 rear, which would be nearly double what we paid for the mower!

I'm thinking 14N and 14R are different in that the snapring is inside the yoke ears on one and outside on the other. I know for sure that '12' series are that way. 14R should be available, or you could order the Woods part; if you can get it for $40, it will fit and the price isn't far out of line. Order the u-joint cross as well. There are several Woods dealers online including Messick's. They probably offer a generic 14R yoke as well. Drilling the ORC is an ooption, but if it isn't done absolutely correctly it won't work well, or at all.

sandman2234 · May 9, 2009

A machine shop, especially a HOMESHOP would charge less than what the cutter is worth that it will take to cut a hardened piece of steel. However, if the edge of a file will cut into the steel, most likely it can be drilled. Hard is a relative term, and not always an impossibility. I can't see a lot of money being invested in good steel and the extra hardening processes to make something hard, when they really want it to wear out anyway. Planned that way most of the time.
HSS is probably not going to cut it, from harbor freight...
Carbide will most likely cut it, but requires extremely slow speeds and accurate feeds.
David from jax

wwalkersd · May 10, 2009

Thanks, all! I just discovered that one of our volunteers is a retired machinist who still has ties to his old shop. So he's going to drill the ORC for a pin, as well as cut the shaft to length.

And yes, there's definitely a slip clutch under that cover. I've got a photo, but I can't post it right now.

captflx · May 10, 2009

I sold the M5 Dixie cutter until about 18 years ago, and I didn't remember that it required a pin through the tractor shaft.
Does your tractor pto shaft have a groove around the circumference? Go to Woodsequipment.com and look up manuals for your model. You will see that although the yoke appears to have a hole in the side, it also has a spring loaded push pin that locks into the groove on the pto shaft. So you don't need to drill the pto yoke.